Loss of obliquity on mars and its consequences toward life

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    Life Loss Mars
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the implications of Mars' axial tilt (obliquity) on the potential for life, particularly in relation to the effects of large variations in obliquity over time. Participants explore the consequences of these variations on climate stability and the evolution of life forms, considering both theoretical and speculative aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the accuracy of a claim that Mars' obliquity can vary by as much as 60 degrees, asking if such a variance could lead to the end of life and whether this change occurs at a constant rate.
  • Another participant notes that Mars' obliquity is believed to range between 11° and 49°, suggesting that large obliquity could produce extreme seasonal variations, which may hinder the evolution of complex life within a million-year timeframe.
  • Speculation arises about whether life could develop on Mars under extreme conditions, with one participant suggesting that basic life forms might struggle to evolve before climate changes disrupt stability.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that extreme conditions on Earth have not wiped out all life, implying that life on Mars might persist unless it lacked sufficient time for speciation.
  • One participant asserts that there is no advanced life currently on Mars and highlights the uncertainty surrounding the existence of any form of life, past or present, as well as the necessity of a stable obliquity for life.
  • Concerns are raised about the vagueness of the term "the end for life," suggesting that the author may be referring to macroscopic organisms rather than the potential for microbial life to persist.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the potential for life on Mars in relation to its obliquity, with no consensus reached on the implications of large obliquity variations or the conditions necessary for life to develop or persist.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the specific impacts of obliquity on climate and life, as well as the limitations of extrapolating from Earth's biological history to Mars.

Nano-Passion
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I read this very interesting article on physorg about how planetary tilt is essential to life and various things that can diminish axial tilt over time or not give rise to one; things that would make life less probable.

But I came across this quote that I couldn't help but question the accuracy of its statement.

"For an opposite case, consider Mars. Hulking Jupiter wreaks havoc with the Red Planet's obliquity, causing it to vary by perhaps as much as 60 degrees over the course of a million years, Heller said. Those disturbances lead to big swings in global temperatures and glacier cover, and on more habitable worlds that sort of climatic chaos could spell the end for life."

I don't have the required mathematical and scientific knowledge to criticize [for lack of better words] this statement. Could a variance of 60 degrees over the course of a million years cause the end of life [not implying there was, of course]? Is it a constant rate of change?
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
on Mars, the range is believed to be between 11° and 49°
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt#Long_period_variations

Large obliquity would produce extreme seasons ... a lifeform would need to be able to evolve to handle variations like this with enough differentiation to speciate when things change to a more stable situation or to a more variable one. 1million years usually considered a little short for this.

Imagine Mars went through an Earth-like phase, and developed basic life - it would be hard pressed to get past the simple-cell level before the climate gets ripped apart - either going cold and stable-ish or running to extreme seasonal variations.
timescale

Such cells may go dormant and bloom into life when conditions return ... but for millions of years?

It's mostly speculation but the odds are against anything evolving planetside even as far as blue-green algae.
 
Given the different extremes that life has been found in here on Earth, I don't see any reason to think that something like this could wipe out ALL life on Mars unless it simply hadn't had enough time for a good amount of speciation to occur. Whether something like this could keep life from developing at all, I don't know.
 
One thing can be said with certainty regarding life on Mars: There is no advanced life on Mars right now.

Whether life in any form has existed on Mars, ever: We don't know. Whether primitive life still exists in some form: We don't know that, either. Whether a more or less constant obliquity is essential for life: That's yet another "We don't know." There is an ever-present danger of extrapolating from a sample size of one in astrobiology.
 
We can only talk about how the kinds of life we know about would handle Mars through it's development. On top of which, the author is vague about what is meant by "the end for life" ... could just be thinking about macroscopic organisms like cats and dogs and so on when we have been thinking in terms of global sterilization.

Getting beyond the "sample size of one" is part of why it is so important to biology to look for life on Mars ... even if it is signs of ancient life.
 

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