Low mass post-main-sequence on HR diagram

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evolutionary path of low mass stars as they leave the main sequence on the Hertzsprung-Russell (H-R) diagram. Participants explore the characteristics of low mass stars, including red dwarfs and brown dwarfs, and their eventual fates in stellar evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the trajectory of low mass stars as they exit the main sequence, questioning whether they simply move down to the right along the main sequence.
  • It is noted that lower mass stars typically end as white dwarfs after exhausting their fuel.
  • There is debate over whether brown dwarfs should be classified as main sequence objects, with some arguing they do not belong on the H-R diagram as they are not considered stars.
  • One participant mentions the lack of observational evidence regarding red dwarfs' evolution after leaving the main sequence, attributing this to the universe's youth.
  • Another participant suggests that red dwarfs will likely move vertically up the H-R diagram until they exhaust their fuel, potentially forming a cold ball of helium.
  • There is a discussion about the theoretical interest in low mass stellar evolution, with some asserting that calculations can be made despite the lack of observational examples.
  • It is proposed that if low mass stars leave the main sequence, they would ascend along the Hayashi line, becoming variations of red giants, while those unable to fuse helium would fade away.
  • Brown dwarfs are characterized as objects that will not ascend the H-R diagram, as they do not undergo hydrogen burning and will simply cool and fade over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of brown dwarfs and the evolutionary paths of low mass stars, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on theoretical models without observational confirmation, particularly regarding the evolution of red dwarfs and the behavior of brown dwarfs on the H-R diagram.

Zorba
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Can anyone describe to me the path a low mass body takes as it leaves the main-sequence? Or is it the case that a low mass body just moves along the main sequence, down to the right?
 
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Lower mass stars end up as white dwarfs when they run out of fuel.
 
Can we still count 'Brown Dwarfs' as Main Sequence ??
 
Brown dwarfs are usually not considered stars, so they are not on the main sequence.

There is no observational evidence as to what red dwarfs do when they leave the main sequence, since the universe is not old enough to have any examples. For the same reason, it's not been of intense theoretical interest.

We know they won't form white dwarfs as we know them, because they are too small to fuse helium. I imagine that they travel vertically up the H-R diagram until they run out of fuel, and then form a cold ball of helium, possibly with an electron degenerate core.
 
Zorba said:
Can anyone describe to me the path a low mass body takes as it leaves the main-sequence? Or is it the case that a low mass body just moves along the main sequence, down to the right?

This paper... http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1997ApJ...482..420L" ...describes the late-time evolution of very low mass stars.

But there are many other papers available on the ADS, the NASA Astrophysical Database Server. Try this search result for just a few...
http://bit.ly/jfiGfM".
 
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Thank you for the link to that fascinating article on the end of the main sequence.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Brown dwarfs are usually not considered stars, so they are not on the main sequence.[/QOUTE]

That is not a very good reason. In principle we can put any object in the Universe we like on the HR diagram, even though they have nothing to do with stellar evolution. Besides: brown dwarfs get their energy from gravitational contraction, just as some stars do in some parts of their life, so I would think they fit perfectly well on there in the same context.

Vanadium 50 said:
There is no observational evidence as to what red dwarfs do when they leave the main sequence, since the universe is not old enough to have any examples. For the same reason, it's not been of intense theoretical interest.

There is _plenty_ of theoretical interest in low mass stellar evolution. The Universe is not old enough, so indeed we cannot find these objects, but that does not mean that we cannot calculate these objects. And we do. If stars leave the main sequence (i.e. did _did_ burn hydrogen in their core), they would indeed move upwards, along the Hayashi line: their core contracts, their envelope grows, so it cools down. They will become small variations of red giants. If they do not have enough mass to fuse helium, I guess they would just fade from there (and do some deuterium burning first).

Brown dwarfs will never move upwards, as they won't run out of the hydrigen they cannot even start burning. They will just cool down and fade.
 

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