Magnitude of external electric force on electric dipole

In summary: You're right, I misunderstood the bars. They meant "take the absolute value of what is between the bars", which is zero. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
  • #1
ChiralSuperfields
1,316
141
Homework Statement
Please see below
Relevant Equations
Torque = electric dipole moment x electric field strength
For this part(b) of this problem, how is the magnitude of the total electric force zero?
1670732643570.png

I thought it would be:
1670732728637.png

If they asked for the total electric force, then I would have said zero because the two electric force vectors cancel.

Many thanks!
 

Attachments

  • 1670732564709.png
    1670732564709.png
    24.3 KB · Views: 67
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Callumnc1 said:
For this part(b) of this problem, how is the magnitude of the total electric force zero?

I thought it would be:
View attachment 318599
What is the value of ##-qE + qE##? What is the value of ##|-qE + qE|##?

Callumnc1 said:
If they asked for the total electric force, then I would have said zero because the two electric force vectors cancel.
Yes, the total electric force vector is the zero vector. So, the magnitude of the total electric force is the magnitude of the zero vector.

If they had asked for the sum of the magnitudes of the two forces, then you would get ##2qE##. But this doesn't have much physical significance. The sum of the magnitudes of two vectors is generally not the same as the magnitude of the sum of the two vectors.
 
  • Like
Likes ChiralSuperfields and Orodruin
  • #3
TSny said:
What is the value of ##-qE + qE##? What is the value of ##|-qE + qE|##?Yes, the total electric force vector is the zero vector. So, the magnitude of the total electric force is the magnitude of the zero vector.

If they had asked for the sum of the magnitudes of the two forces, then you would get ##2qE##. But this doesn't have much physical significance. The sum of the magnitudes of two vectors is generally not the same as the magnitude of the sum of the two vectors.
Thanks for your help @TSny! The value of
1670738654075.png
is zero. And the value of
1670738677513.png
is 2qE, correct?

Many thanks!
 
  • #5
Orodruin said:
Wrong. The difference is taken before the magnitude.
Ok thank you for pointing that out @Orodruin !
 
  • #6
You could also have sorted this out if you kept in mind that force is a vector which has magnitude and direction. Both are needed to specify a vector. In this case, if the force on the dipole were ##2qE##, what would its direction be and why?
 
  • Like
Likes ChiralSuperfields
  • #7
kuruman said:
You could also have sorted this out if you kept in mind that force is a vector which has magnitude and direction. Both are needed to specify a vector. In this case, if the force on the dipole were ##2qE##, what would its direction be and why?
Thanks for your reply @kuruman ! Is it not impossible for the force on the dipole to be 2qE since the charges are equal and opposite?

Many thanks,
Callum
 
  • #8
It is impossible for the force on the dipole to be 2qE. I was referring to this statement in post #1 where you seem to think that it is 2qE. Did I miss your point? What did you think would be 2qE?

Callumnc1 said:
I thought it would be:
View attachment 318599
If they asked for the total electric force, then I would have said zero because the two electric force vectors cancel.
 
  • #9
Thanks for your reply @kuruman! I though the magnitude of the force was 2qE because I though
1670811188103.png
. But apparently absolute values bars don't work like that.

I guess 2qE would be the magnitude of the external electric force on each side of the dipole added together, correct?

Many thanks!
 
  • #10
Callumnc1 said:
apparently absolute values bars don't work like that.
They could not work like that. The bars mean "take the absolute value of what is between the bars". What is between the bars is -qE+qE, which is zero.
Likewise ##(x+y)^2## is not the same as ##(x^2+y^2)##.
 
  • Like
Likes ChiralSuperfields
  • #11
Callumnc1 said:
apparently absolute values bars don't work like that.
The bars are like parentheses except, after you calculate what's between them, you strip the negative sign if it's there.

Example
##|5-2|=|3|=3##

##|2-5|=|-3|=3.##
 
  • Like
Likes ChiralSuperfields
  • #12
  • #13
If the net charge is zero, the net force (and hence its magnitude) can only be non-zero if the electric field is not constant. You can however have a net force on a dipole if the field is different in different points.
 
  • Like
Likes ChiralSuperfields
  • #14
Orodruin said:
If the net charge is zero, the net force (and hence its magnitude) can only be non-zero if the electric field is not constant. You can however have a net force on a dipole if the field is different in different points.
Thank you @Orodruin !
 

Related to Magnitude of external electric force on electric dipole

1. What is an electric dipole?

An electric dipole is a pair of equal and opposite charges separated by a small distance. This separation creates a dipole moment, which is a measure of the strength and direction of the dipole.

2. How is the magnitude of external electric force on an electric dipole calculated?

The magnitude of the external electric force on an electric dipole can be calculated using the formula F = pE sinθ, where p is the dipole moment, E is the electric field strength, and θ is the angle between the dipole moment and the electric field.

3. What factors affect the magnitude of external electric force on an electric dipole?

The magnitude of the external electric force on an electric dipole is affected by the strength of the electric field, the distance between the charges, and the angle between the dipole moment and the electric field.

4. How does the direction of the electric field affect the magnitude of external electric force on an electric dipole?

The direction of the electric field is an important factor in calculating the magnitude of external electric force on an electric dipole. If the electric field is parallel to the dipole moment, the force will be zero. If the electric field is perpendicular to the dipole moment, the force will be at its maximum value.

5. Can the magnitude of external electric force on an electric dipole be negative?

Yes, the magnitude of external electric force on an electric dipole can be negative. This occurs when the electric field and the dipole moment are in opposite directions, resulting in a negative value for the force.

Similar threads

  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
14
Views
698
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
489
Replies
4
Views
487
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
7
Views
368
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
17
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
920
Back
Top