Major or minor -- Which do you find more pleasing?

[BWV]

Professor Fate (Jack Lemmon) "plays" the Toccata and Fugue in The Great Race (1965) :

 

[fresh_42]

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I have heard about something similar in a guitar shop: "No smoke on the water!"

 

[Svein]

In his first symphony, 3. movement, Gustav Mahler introduces "Frère Jacques" - but in minor! Not everybody is able to recognize the original...

 

[fresh_42]

In his first symphony, 3. movement, Gustav Mahler introduces "Frère Jacques" - but in minor! Not everybody is able to recognize the original...

And they said that Tchaikovsky would have stolen from traditionals!

 

[DennisN]

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I have heard about something similar in a guitar shop: "No smoke on the water!"

Yes, I recognize this too . It's one of the most common riffs guitar beginners learn.

Other common reoccuring songs are The House of the Rising Sun, Purple Haze (Jimi Hendrix) and Smells Like Teen Spirit (Nirvana). I can play both the Toccata (on keyboard, though only the intro up to when the faster part starts) and Smoke On The Water (on guitar) and the Toccata is the more difficult one of these two.

I can play the other three riffs too, and if I list those five in order of difficulty I think I'd say the Toccata is the most difficult (because of the melody and the changes of speed of the notes):

1. Toccata (not easy for beginners, there are definitely more easy songs for beginners on keyboard)
2. Purple Haze (not particularly easy for beginners, you have to have played a while to manage it)
3. The House of the Rising Sun (it is a bit tricky partly because it's in 3/4)
4. Smells Like Teen Spirit (Nirvana) (quite easy, though you need to know how to play chords)
5. Smoke On The Water (very easy)

(1 = most difficult, 5 = least difficult)

Some more examples here: Forbidden Riffs In Guitar Stores (leftyfretz)

(note: I was a bit surprised Sweet Child O’ Mine (Guns ‘N Roses) was on the list. It is actually a quite tricky thing to play, because (1) it's originally played very high on the fretboard (i.e. tight frets) and (2) it may sound simple, but it is a quite tricky pattern to play. I can only play it slowly .)

 

[fresh_42]

Some more examples here: Forbidden Riffs In Guitar Stores (leftyfretz)

This is the list I have found (most popular):

 

[pinball1970]

Yes, I recognize this too . It's one of the most common riffs guitar beginners learn.

Other common reoccuring songs are The House of the Rising Sun, Purple Haze (Jimi Hendrix) and Smells Like Teen Spirit (Nirvana). I can play both the Toccata (on keyboard, though only the intro up to when the faster part starts) and Smoke On The Water (on guitar) and the Toccata is the more difficult one of these two.

I can play the other three riffs too, and if I list those five in order of difficulty I think I'd say the Toccata is the most difficult (because of the melody and the changes of speed of the notes):

1. Toccata (not easy for beginners, there are definitely more easy songs for beginners on keyboard)
2. Purple Haze (not particularly easy for beginners, you have to have played a while to manage it)
3. The House of the Rising Sun (it is a bit tricky partly because it's in 3/4)
4. Smells Like Teen Spirit (Nirvana) (quite easy, though you need to know how to play chords)
5. Smoke On The Water (very easy)

(1 = most difficult, 5 = least difficult)

Some more examples here: Forbidden Riffs In Guitar Stores (leftyfretz)

(note: I was a bit surprised Sweet Child O’ Mine (Guns ‘N Roses) was on the list. It is actually a quite tricky thing to play, because (1) it's originally played very high on the fretboard (i.e. tight frets) and (2) it may sound simple, but it is a quite tricky pattern to play. I can only play it slowly .)

One of the issues is not getting sick of hearing the riff over and over (which must get annoying) but hearing it not being played quite right in lots of different ways.
It irritates the hell out of me and only go in these shops occasionally!

 

[pinball1970]

This is the list I have found (most popular):

View attachment 324838

Drummers are just as bad, especially in sound check. Double BD players do the one lick they always do. Double snare, tom 1, tom 2 and 3 followed each time by double BD.
Single BD is always rock or that funk beat you learn at 14. Very annoying.

 

[fresh_42]

Bassist wasn't paying attention during the session and asks the drummer:
"Hey, where are we?"
Answer:
"Why are you interested in that?"

On a football ground, there is a hundred bill on the kick-off point.
In the first corner is a bass player, in the second a saxophonist, in the third a drummer and in the fourth a drummer with timing.
Who will grab the hundred first?
the drummer, the sax player doesn't bend down for a hundred, bass players never move anyway, and there aren't any drummers with timing anyway.

Ok, I stop here. Seems we need a new thread.

 

[DennisN]

Single BD is always rock or that funk beat you learn at 14. Very annoying.

I just want to state for the record that I am absolutely terrible at drums.
And I've actually tried a bit to learn some drums, even from very good drummers I know (at least 3 ).
But I ain't got it in me, I can't hold the tempo, unless it's a very, very simple beat.

I tried rehearsing drums to help a fellow band who hadn't a drummer at that moment.
But we gave up after an hour or so, I simply could not make it.

But I know how to program drum machines, that I've done quite a lot .

 

[pinball1970]

I just want to state for the record that I am absolutely terrible at drums.
And I've actually tried a bit to learn some drums, even from very good drummers I know (at least 3 ).
But I ain't got it in me, I can't hold the tempo, unless it's a very, very simple beat.

I tried rehearsing drums to help a fellow band who hadn't a drummer at that moment.
But we gave up after an hour or so, I simply could not make it.

But I know how to program drum machines, that I've done quite a lot .

I can play all the band instruments but I only play drums well because I was taught at an early age, everything else was, "can you show me how to do that?" to my fellow band members.
Keeping a rhythm is easy enough if it is slow and straight but can go off if you add a fill while you are learning.
If you are concentrating like hell just on the rhythm then putting anything else in will be like just learning to ride a bike then taking one hand off the wheel.
Different thread but there is a lot of physics playing drums. From tuning and sounds to actual playing.

 

[pinball1970]

Bassist wasn't paying attention during the session and asks the drummer:
"Hey, where are we?"
Answer:
"Why are you interested in that?"

On a football ground, there is a hundred bill on the kick-off point.
In the first corner is a bass player, in the second a saxophonist, in the third a drummer and in the fourth a drummer with timing.
Who will grab the hundred first?
the drummer, the sax player doesn't bend down for a hundred, bass players never move anyway, and there aren't any drummers with timing anyway.

Ok, I stop here. Seems we need a new thread.

Yep heard all of them Fresh. Drummers are the poor man's musician when we actually have the hardest jobs.
The first being the management of the fragile egos of all our fellow band members.
Stressful, no wonder we drink so much.

 

[pinball1970]

Ok right back on track. C6, why is it C6? Why not Am with a C bass? In other words when is a major a minor at the same time?
This is like Schrödingers chord.

 

[fresh_42]

I just want to state for the record that I am absolutely terrible at drums.
And I've actually tried a bit to learn some drums, even from very good drummers I know (at least 3 ).
But I ain't got it in me, I can't hold the tempo, unless it's a very, very simple beat.

I tried rehearsing drums to help a fellow band who hadn't a drummer at that moment.
But we gave up after an hour or so, I simply could not make it.

But I know how to program drum machines, that I've done quite a lot .

That sounds like my proof of telling my girlfriend

Spoiler

 

[BWV]

Ok right back on track. C6, why is it C6? Why not Am with a C bass? In other words when is a major a minor at the same time?
This is like Schrödingers chord.

C6 has the same notes as A minor 7, but is voiced as a C major chord with the 6th (A) in an upper voice as a color tone. Pre 20th century classical music would call it a 6/5 chord and would not use it as the resolution in a cadence they way it does in Jazz

 

[pinball1970]

C6 has the same notes as A minor 7, but is voiced as a C major chord with the 6th (A) in an upper voice as a color tone. Pre 20th century classical music would call it a 6/5 chord and would not use it as the resolution in a cadence they way it does in Jazz

When I hear it, a 6th, there is that sadness there but context and root note is everything.
Fool on the hill is a good example.

 

[pinball1970]

Another is the major 7th. It is a major chord but sounds so sad but in a different way to a minor chord. Sad and beautiful, like saying goodbye for the final time to someone you love.
A major chord is a beautiful sunny day, fields of corn, rolling hills, dusky horizon.
Sun sets give you the major 7th, the day is ending but a beautiful red sky (I am thinking East Anglia - amazing flat farm country, as English as it gets)
Night comes and now there are dark places, minor.
Diminished you find yourself in a wood.
Flat 7th flat ninth, Aug 5th or 7 # 9th you come across satan in the wood.
A chord for every occasion.

 

[BWV]

Another is the major 7th. It is a major chord but sounds so sad but in a different way to a minor chord. Sad and beautiful, like saying goodbye for the final time to someone you love.
A major chord is a beautiful sunny day, fields of corn, rolling hills, dusky horizon.
Sun sets give you the major 7th, the day is ending but a beautiful red sky (I am thinking East Anglia - amazing flat farm country, as English as it gets)
Night comes and now there are dark places, minor.
Diminished you find yourself in a wood.
Flat 7th flat ninth, Aug 5th or 7 # 9th you come across satan in the wood.
A chord for every occasion.

1972 was peak major 7th chord for FM radio

 

[fresh_42]

I like the diminished 7th.

 

[BWV]

I like the diminished 7th.

The mathematical choice <0369> ,000402: only 3 of them due transpositional symmetries and invariant under inversion

 

[fresh_42]

A propos mathematical choice. Does anyone know the books by Guerino Mazzola? I have one titled "Groups and Categories in Music".

 

[pinball1970]

I like the diminished 7th.

I know, that is odd. In place as a turn around it can be fantastic. On its own it belongs in the wood at night.

 

[pinball1970]

The mathematical choice <0369> ,000402: only 3 of them due transpositional symmetries and invariant under inversion

Ha ha! Yes, it's minor thirds, 6ths and flat 5ths up and down.

 

[pinball1970]

The mathematical choice <0369> ,000402: only 3 of them due transpositional symmetries and invariant under inversion

Actually the nomenclature never made sense to me. Why diminished 7th?
We have three symmetrical intervals and none of them are 7th.
There are 4 notes, built on minor thirds and we have flat 3rd, flat 5th and a major 6th.
Why 7th!?
All the explanations on the net do not make much sense either.
Apparently the 7th is diminished? The 7th in C is B, flat 7th is Bb.
A is the sixth, why refer to that as flat flat 7th?
Almost as bad population 3 stars.

 

[BWV]

Actually the nomenclature never made sense to me. Why diminished 7th?
We have three symmetrical intervals and none of them are 7th.
There are 4 notes, built on minor thirds and we have flat 3rd, flat 5th and a major 6th.
Why 7th!?
All the explanations on the net do not make much sense either.
Apparently the 7th is diminished? The 7th in C is B, flat 7th is Bb.
A is the sixth, why refer to that as flat flat 7th?
Almost as bad population 3 stars.

It is a naming convention that goes back to figured bass and is tied to the harmonic / contrapuntal context. While in equal temperament both a major 6th and diminished 7th are 9 half-steps, they are not the same thing. In A minor, the diminished 7th chord is G# B D F, starting from G# in the key, E is the 6th and F is the 7th. Likewise, an augmented 5th is notated differently than a minor 6th

 

[pinball1970]

It is a naming convention that goes back to figured bass and is tied to the harmonic / contrapuntal context. While in equal temperament both a major 6th and diminished 7th are 9 half-steps, they are not the same thing. In A minor, the diminished 7th chord is G# B D F, starting from G# in the key, E is the 6th and F is the 7th. Likewise, an augmented 5th is notated differently than a minor 6th

So the penultimate one? If you do everything from the root?

 

[BWV]

So the penultimate one? If you do everything from the root?

yes, similarly the interval from F to G# in A minor (3 half steps) is an augmented second, not a minor third

 

[pinball1970]

yes, similarly the interval from F to G# in A minor (3 half steps) is an augmented second, not a minor third

That makes no sense to me. I would never use that term although it may make sense technically/harmonically.