Male-Female Strength/Wrestling Question

[nismaratwork]

Between the ages of 11 and 17 I was assistant and then head of my 11 a.m. church nursery, for an hour or so on Sundays while the parents were in the sanctuary. It was better than listening to a liberal sermon. The kids I oversaw with a helper were anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 years, and boy, could some wriggle!

Ah yes... children in their "grub stage", and the dreaded "nymph stage". Oh, and when I say nymph I don't mean this:

I mean THIS:
[PLAIN]http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/water/images/lg/770397_dragonfly_lg.jpg

 

[Loren Booda]

I'll go with the flower girl.

 

[lisab]

Ah yes... children in their "grub stage", and the dreaded "nymph stage". Oh, and when I say nymph I don't mean this:

I mean THIS:

As a forest nymph, I say: thanks for the clarification .

 

[nismaratwork]

Anytime lisab, anytime.

Loren: Wouldn't we all?... tough for us, we get the fish-eaters.

 

[BobG]

Have you ever wrestled a two-year-old? When trying to hold on to them, they put up quite a fight. Just ask their Mom or Dad.

Or an 18 month old when you're changing their diaper. One handed, trying to keep them from smearing poop on the carpet, trying to keep their foot out of the old diaper - it's just a harrowing experience.

 

[nismaratwork]

Or an 18 month old when you're changing their diaper. One handed, trying to keep them from smearing poop on the carpet, trying to keep their foot out of the old diaper - it's just a harrowing experience.

I think babies are actually Thorium reactors... you're dealing with hot waste there. I've also heard that they can literally fill their jumpers on a bad day with poop... is that actually TRUE?

 

[lisab]

I think babies are actually Thorium reactors... you're dealing with hot waste there. I've also heard that they can literally fill their jumpers on a bad day with poop... is that actually TRUE?

The technical term for that is a "blowout".

 

[nismaratwork]

The technical term for that is a "blowout".

So it IS real!

brb... getting vasectomy...

 

[DanP]

Hi, I'm interested in hearing honest opinions/experiences on male versus female strength. As a perhaps below-average strength guy (150 lbs, can bench 70 lbs ten times at most) I've often found women stronger than me, and many have pinned me in friendly wrestles. Wondering if men or women on this list have experiences to share, I'm curious if women often surprise their male friends or mates by being stronger. Thanks, Kevin

When you normalize for the number of muscular fibers and CSA of the fiber both man and women have equal maximum-strength.

Maximal total body mean strength in women is about 60% of that of a man.
In the lower body the total average strength of a women is about 70-75% of that of a man, while in the upper body it varies from 25% to 55% of that of a man. (according to Fleck&Kraemer 2004) There exist also differences in the potential to develop maximal power between man and women.

The comparisons are made in groups with similar age, training age, and so on. It would hilarious to compare the strength of a trained power female athlete to the strength of a untrained man, the female would just win hands down.

And yes, you are weak in upper body strength. An average *untrained* (who never lifted anything) man of 150 pounds is expected to have a 1RM bench press of 110 , and your predicted 1RM max is only about 93 pounds. It's a big difference.

A woman of the same weight , untrained, is expected to bench about 70 pounds. You are still stronger an untrained women of your weight, but only by a small difference. And of course, all bets are off if you compare yourself with a strength trained woman in the same weight category.

So when you compare yourself to a girl, look for her background in strength training, and technical training she had. It is unreasonable for you to expect to be stronger only because you are a man.

 

[FizixFreak]

you guy have probably seen it before but just for interest take a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mfn5As4G5o&feature=related

when i saw it for the first time it really hurt my manly ego(which every man should have i think)

 

[nismaratwork]

you guy have probably seen it before but just for interest take a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mfn5As4G5o&feature=related

when i saw it for the first time it really hurt my manly ego(which every man should have i think)

What the heck is "many ego"... is that like, "Machismo"? I'd say that any false sense of superiority is a weakness... hence your initial pain compared to saaaay, DanP who was probably unfazed and unsurprised.

 

[FizixFreak]

What the heck is "many ego"... is that like, "Machismo"? I'd say that any false sense of superiority is a weakness... hence your initial pain compared to saaaay, DanP who was probably unfazed and unsurprised.

First of all it is manly ego not many ego and by manly ego(probably poor choice of words English is not my first language) i meant the competitive aspect of nature of men which forces them to compete and become better at any thing that aspect is not so much pronounced in females(may be they can compete for "who can make the sandwich faster") and for men that type of competitive nature is a good thing so when you see a women hitting harder than a man that ego does get hurt but i am not being an idiot about it the women used better technique and she deserves respect for that.
By the i have no false sense of superiority on women.., are you male or female(just asking nothing sexist about it) and what the hell is machismo?

 

[DanP]

First of all it is manly ego not many ego and by manly ego(probably poor choice of words English is not my first language) i meant the competitive aspect of nature of men which forces them to compete and become better at any thing that aspect is not so much pronounced in females(may be they can compete for "who can make the sandwich faster") and for men that type of competitive nature is a good thing so when you see a women hitting harder than a man that ego does get hurt but i am not being an idiot about it the women used better technique and she deserves respect for that.
By the i have no false sense of superiority on women.., are you male or female(just asking nothing sexist about it) and what the hell is machismo?

Rather than having your ego hurt, why don't you go to a boxing gym if you have such a competitive nature ? Go and strength train also. Better yourself. If you want to punch hard, doit. In a year of diligent training you can attain enough power to knockout cold someone of your own weight. Sure, youll still have to connect that punch, but that's another story :P

The physical condition of many men today is a sorry joke. Despite their "competitive nature" they choose to stay on their wide asses at TV all day long, slowly turning in slobs of fat. What is this competition about ? Who among us will become the weaker and fattest ?

 

[FizixFreak]

Rather than having your ego hurt, why don't you go to a boxing gym if you have such a competitive nature ? Go and strength train also. Better yourself. If you want to punch hard, doit. In a year of diligent training you can attain enough power to knockout cold someone of your own weight. Sure, youll still have to connect that punch, but that's another story :P

The physical condition of many men today is a sorry joke. Despite their "competitive nature"
they choose to stay on their wide asses at TV all day long, slowly turning in slobs of fat. What is this competition about ? Who among us will become the weaker and fattest ?

As far as the training goes i am on it currently doing weight training and have done some kickboxing in the past although i am on the novice level but i will get somewhere in a year or so or at least that is what i hope but this really does not have anything to do with my views men are naturally more competitive but not necessarily in a physical manner.

And yeah some men do act like slobs but if all men start acting like the alpha males then how would average men like me find any women

 

[DanP]

As far as the training goes i am on it currently doing weight training and have done some kickboxing in the past although i am on the novice level but i will get somewhere in a year or so or at least that is what i hope but this really does not have anything to do with my views men are naturally more competitive but not necessarily in a physical manner.

Good, take care not to get your *** kicked by a competitive girl. Yes, statistically men exhibit more competitive behavior than woman and have higher levels of aggression. So what ?

Stay involved in sports enough time, and you will cease to be so freaked out by the physical prowess of the women. You will see that they are phenomenal athletes.

 

[FizixFreak]

Good, take care not to get your *** kicked by a competitive girl. Yes, statistically men exhibit more competitive behavior than woman and have higher levels of aggression. So what ?

Stay involved in sports enough time, and you will cease to be so freaked out by the physical prowess of the women. You will see that they are phenomenal athletes.

Are you a chick?
I mean you talking so much about GIRL POWER what is wrong with you?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

When my daughter was 6 years old, she could beat me at arm wrestling consistently.

 

[nismaratwork]

First of all it is manly ego not many ego and by manly ego(probably poor choice of words English is not my first language) i meant the competitive aspect of nature of men which forces them to compete and become better at any thing that aspect is not so much pronounced in females(may be they can compete for "who can make the sandwich faster") and for men that type of competitive nature is a good thing so when you see a women hitting harder than a man that ego does get hurt but i am not being an idiot about it the women used better technique and she deserves respect for that.
By the i have no false sense of superiority on women.., are you male or female(just asking nothing sexist about it) and what the hell is machismo?

Machismo is the Spanish word for what you just described.

 

[Pythagorean]

This is the what regular guys think about women...

If by regular guys, you mean:

a) late teens/ early 20's
b) never grew up

then yeah.

 

[nismaratwork]

Pythagorean: Arrested Development: not just a funny TV show after all.

 

[DanP]

Are you a chick?
I mean you talking so much about GIRL POWER what is wrong with you?
This is the what regular guys think about women...

From a large experience in athletics I seen that usually men having their ego bruised by the physical prowess of women are generally weaklings who can barely hold their own in any competition whatsoever. In a word, some of those who lacked motivation and competitive wish to raise to competitive status started to be envious not only on men who raised above them, but also on the females who managed to get medals, bashing them and inventing reasons why those girls got the medals. You know what are the reasons those girls got medals ? Hard work.

There is nothing wrong with me. However, I am tired of males who bash females involved in athletics when they are pretty much big zeroes in competition. DO you want to be misogynistic to female athelthes ? Raise at least to where they raised. Then you get a saying. Until then, you shut up and respect them. You don't got a saying in this. Because till then you are weaker then them. From all points of view. Will, motivation, determination and consistence, relative physical attributes, technical preparedness.

And perhaps you would like to tell to Rijker that she is only good to fold clothes ? Got a sudden desire to be hospitalized ?

 

[DanP]

Machismo is the Spanish word for what you just described.

Being macho is not a problem in my view. But there is a difference between being macho and being a wide-mouth parrot. The later lacks any attributes whatsoever to be macho, all he has
is a bruised ego.

 

[BobG]

This year, Iowa had a female qualify the for the state championship for the first time in the state's history (top 16 wrestlers in the state qualify). In fact, two girls qualified! Considering how big wrestling is in Iowa, that's a surprise.

One was pinned in both her matches and is out of the tournament. The other, Cassy Herkelman, became the first girl ever to win a match at the state tournament when she won her first match by default. Her opponent, Joel Northrup, who finished 3rd in state last year, forfeited because his religious beliefs prevented him from wrestling a girl. Herkelman lost her second round match and now drops into the loser's bracket (where Northrup is still alive after winning his first match in the loser's bracket).

Iowa State Wrestling Tournament

 

[DanP]

This year, Iowa had a female qualify the for the state championship for the first time in the state's history (top 16 wrestlers in the state qualify). In fact, two girls qualified! Considering how big wrestling is in Iowa, that's a surprise.

One was pinned in both her matches and is out of the tournament. The other, Cassy Herkelman, became the first girl ever to win a match at the state tournament when she won her first match by default. Her opponent, Joel Northrup, who finished 3rd in state last year, forfeited because his religious beliefs prevented him from wrestling a girl. Herkelman lost her second round match and now drops into the loser's bracket (where Northrup is still alive after winning his first match in the loser's bracket).

Iowa State Wrestling Tournament

Yeah, I know about this. It's great work for the girls. However I do not believe that having mixed male and females events in sport competition is a good idea.

 

[lisab]

Yeah, I know about this. It's great work for the girls. However I do not believe that having mixed male and females events in sport competition is a good idea.

I agree with that. But it's great to train together, I think.

 

[nismaratwork]

I wrestled, am not religious, but I sure as hell would have been too shy to wrestle with a girl... not because of her, but because I was a BOY! It's frankly awkward enough to get into a 'onesie' with ear-cups and 'special' shoes with another guy at that age.

The important thing here is that he FORFEITED, he didn't whine or sue. He made a decision, or his parents did, but either way they did it at their own expense both socially and otherwise, not hers.

Still, let me put this out there: In professional sports you have a nearly universal (it seems) use of 'illicit' performance enhancing... let's just say "methods" at this point. It's a joke to think that there is ever an even playing field, so frankly if a woman (read: WOMAN) wants to wrestle with men (again, MEN), go for it. Win or lose, who cares?

I will say this: one of the most basic tactics in G-R wrestling is to make your opponent WANT to lose; you want them to stop bridging and be PINNED. One of the totally accepted ways to do this is to dig your chin like a freaking drill into your opponent's sternum.

1.) This is quite painful, and like many men, I was raised to avoid hurting women at nearly any, if not all, costs.
2.) At that age, sticking my chin into a girl's chest and digging might be a LITTLE awkward.
3.) Fireman's Carry, and a number of other moves just... damn.

Again, if a woman came to me now and wanted to wrestle, I'd decline, but I don't think it's wrong. In a tournament of adults, I'd take the challenge, but I'd be lying if I said that I'd use the same pain-compliance techniques. I could train myself to, but WHY?!... I LIKE having a serious reservation about causing women pain.

By the same token, fencing with women is the best practice you can get; they'll usually beat you. It's not a competition issue in my mind, it's about cultural asymmetries due to physical realities.

Besides... I guarantee that kid will be more concerned about, "unintended consequences" in the cup region, for him and her. You can't just throw away literally a lifetime of lessons and training and start manhandling a girl. You can try, but it'll just show you that in fact, you DO fight like you train.

 

[nismaratwork]

Are you a chick?
I mean you talking so much about GIRL POWER what is wrong with you?
This is the what regular guys think about women...

Above size/img snip mine.

Hmmmm... isn't linking to an image containing profanity prohibited?... you chick magnet you?

 

[turbo]

I agree with that. But it's great to train together, I think.

The young lady (I had known since she was a toddler) who taught me to kayak in white-water was a monster. She injured a shoulder and ended up living in a room in the basement of the most prominent gym in the state. I started weight-training around that time, and she needed heavier spotting than I did. Soon, she was the Women's Junior World Champion power-lifter in her weight class and later the Women's World Champion. If I happen to run into her somewhere, I always brace for impact, because the hugs alone are devastating. She's 5-foot nothin' and as solid as a hydrant.

It was fun to train with her, in part because she was such a demanding partner, always demanding "one more rep" with correct form. Sweet, but mean in the gym.

 

[FizixFreak]

From a large experience in athletics I seen that usually men having their ego bruised by the physical prowess of women are generally weaklings who can barely hold their own in any competition whatsoever. In a word, some of those who lacked motivation and competitive wish to raise to competitive status started to be envious not only on men who raised above them, but also on the females who managed to get medals, bashing them and inventing reasons why those girls got the medals.


You know what are the reasons those girls got medals ? Hard work.

There is nothing wrong with me. However, I am tired of males who bash females involved in athletics when they are pretty much big zeroes in competition. DO you want to be misogynistic to female athelthes ? Raise at least to where they raised. Then you get a saying. Until then, you shut up and respect them. You don't got a saying in this. Because till then you are weaker then them. From all points of view. Will, motivation, determination and consistence, relative physical attributes, technical preparedness.

And perhaps you would like to tell to Rijker that she is only good to fold clothes ? Got a sudden desire to be hospitalized ?

DUDE! why the hostility? if you read my previous post i did admitted that women can be more fit/strong then some men,some researches also show that women can endure more pain then men,the role of women is not restricted to just sports and athletics they have played a great role in the well being of man kind i mean you and i came into this world because of a women and a women raised us to become what we are today.

I believe that men and women are made equal but if you say that in general physical capabilities of men and women are the same than i will disagree(YEAH MANLINESS).

I am not bashing women i was just trying to add a little humor to this thread sexism is pretty funny if you don't mean it for example

 

[DanP]

I believe that men and women are made equal but if you say that in general physical capabilities of men and women are the same than i will disagree(YEAH MANLINESS).

What's so manly to be scared and have your ego bruised by a woman which happens to hit with more kgf than a man ? A man should have more control over his emotional balance, not get more disturbed than a 14 yo girl who just got her first period.