Marriage over the phone: under Sharia law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of marriages conducted over the telephone under Sharia law, as well as the implications of divorce in similar contexts. Participants explore various legal interpretations, cultural practices, and personal anecdotes related to marriage and divorce within Islamic and other legal frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that marriages can be conducted over the telephone under Sharia law, while others question the validity of such claims and seek clarification on the requirements for a valid nikah.
  • One participant mentions that under Californian law, marriages can also occur over the phone under specific circumstances, such as military deployment.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of witnesses for both marriage and divorce, with some arguing that the absence of witnesses could lead to fraudulent claims.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the cultural practices surrounding marriage and divorce in societies that follow Sharia law, labeling them as "primitive." Others defend the practices as valid within their cultural context.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of apostasy and other punishments under Sharia law, with participants discussing the broader context of religious adherence and interpretation.
  • One participant mentions that since 2003, a divorce can also be communicated via text message, provided the message is clear.
  • There are references to the legal status of polygamy under Sharia law, with some participants noting that a man may need permission from existing wives to marry again.
  • Discussions also touch on the broader implications of religious adherence and the ways in which individuals interpret and practice their faith.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the validity of telephone marriages and the requirements for divorce, indicating that there is no consensus on these issues. Multiple competing interpretations of Sharia law and cultural practices are present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of legal interpretations across different jurisdictions, including Sharia law, Indian law, and Californian law. The discussion reflects varying assumptions about cultural practices and the legal frameworks governing marriage and divorce.

jobyts
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8606881.stm"
In recent newspaper interviews, he admitted that he had developed a friendship over the internet with an Indian woman eight years ago and then married her over the telephone after they exchanged photographs.

Apparently, under Sharia law, one can marry over the telephone. I knew one can do a divorce by just saying "I'm divorcing you" to the wife.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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jobyts said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8606881.stm"


Apparently, under Sharia law, one can marry over the telephone. I knew one can do a divorce by just saying "I'm divorcing you" to the wife.
Where does the article say that you can under sharia law?

I don't see any person in that picture observing the sharia.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jobyts said:
Apparently, under Sharia law, one can marry over the telephone.
Under Californian law you can get married over the telephone under certain circumstances - such as if you are being posted overseas to a war zone.

I knew one can do a divorce by just saying "I'm divorcing you" to the wife.
That's the problem with these primitive societies - the correct way to get divorced is to both lie about the behaviour of the other to a judge and then have a ceremony where each of you buy your lawyer a new BMW.
 
http://www.mid-day.com/news/2010/apr/060410-sharia-law-second-marriage-shoaib-sania-ayesha-issue.htm

Is a telephone nikah valid? Can people get married over the telephone or via the Internet?
It is not easy to answer this. There are different opinions on this. But a nikah has to take place in one sitting. During the phone nikah, the bride and the groom both have to be present and at least have a witness each.

Consequently, then, is a divorce over telephone or Internet valid?
One can get divorced over the phone as no witness is required. The mehr, if not paid during the marriage, needs to be paid after divorce.

Which marriage laws are to be followed here? Are they the Sharia laws, Pakistan laws or Indian ones?
Muslims in India follow the Sharia laws.

As per this page, you could marry over the phone if both are present at the same time. (need not be the same place). You cannot put a voice message and that marriage is not valid.
 
Not surprized by your quickness mgb!...and irony :biggrin:

There should be witnesses! Otherwise one can fake the divorce. Aside from other conditions required before doing so, that also apply to getting married...
 
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drizzle said:
There should be witnesses! Other wise one can fake the divorce.

People could fake witnesses too. I'm in support of voice message marriage. That is foolproof.
 
So it is illegal to have two wives? I don't know why the guy would marry on phone in the first place. Why the girl cares when they never talked after?
 
Up to 4 wives are legal. But I think the guy needs permission from the previous ones to marry a new one.
 
Under Sharia law, isn't apostasy punishable by death?
 
  • #10
Leptos said:
Under Sharia law, isn't apostasy punishable by death?

Yes. Adultery, blasphemy, and homosexuality are too.
 
  • #11
Vasara said:
Yes. Adultery, blasphemy, and homosexuality are too.
Who ever on the entire planet does what their holy book tells them to do anyway?

Stewardship, greed remember? Majority of Christians in the US still supported a political party that's for not signing Kyoto and drilling oil for oeconomy's sake.

Then of course there's the fact that accordingly the bible, Christians too should eat kosher/halal meat only, and of course the fact that officially, just as Muslims, they cannot rent money against interest, or loan it against interest.
 
  • #12
Then of course there's the fact that accordingly the bible, Christians too should eat kosher/halal meat only, and of course the fact that officially, just as Muslims, they cannot rent money against interest, or loan it against interest.

I was under the impression that they can take out loans for interest, they just can't give them out
 
  • #13
Office_Shredder said:
I was under the impression that they can take out loans for interest, they just can't give them out
That was I believe in England when the mentality was already half watered down.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the rule in Islam was largely due to Christianity. When people claim to profess a certain religion, they rarely do so, they just like to be associated with that name. I think many Christians would consider the Abrahamic God as described in the bible a chiefly evil being, not to mention a terrible sexist.
 
  • #14
jobyts said:
Up to 4 wives are legal. But I think the guy needs permission from the previous ones to marry a new one.

What about a conference call?
 
  • #15
Just when I thought real life couldn't get any stranger...
 
  • #16
Kajahtava said:
Who ever on the entire planet does what their holy book tells them to do anyway?

I agree, indeed it would be quite silly if they did in today's society. The Sharia isn't a holy book though, it's a law on which various countries base their legal system. These punishments are actually put into practice by courts in many muslim countries.

jobyts said:
I knew one can do a divorce by just saying "I'm divorcing you" to the wife.
Since 2003, one can also do that with a text message, provided the message is clear and unequivocal.
 
  • #17
Vasara said:
I agree, indeed it would be quite silly if they did in today's society. The Sharia isn't a holy book though, it's a law on which various countries base their legal system. These punishments are actually put into practice by courts in many muslim countries.
Some of them they do, some of them they ignore, some of them they outright invent and praetent of it's derived from the sharia.

People often say religions cause war, I don't believe that, people cause war, people cause atrocities, and people try to find a justification for their actions, religion's a good one, so are nonexistent WMD's.

If religion was still accepted by the public as a reason, people would swiftly come to believe that the DMCA has some place in the bible. People don't follow their religion, they make their religion follow them.

I can still remember myself in the first year of secondary school, it was Christmas, parents were coming to school for the celebration, one kid however didn't get any praesents from his parents, I asked him why, he said that they believed that Christmas was not about parents, but about Jesus and family. Being ignorant of the aggression that people can display when being confronted with the truth I just told them that Christmas was actually not a part of Christianity but originally a heathen festival to celebrate the fact that the days were getting longer again and indeed was about praesents and that the bible at no point claims the date of Birth of Jesus is the 25th of december but people later on changed that meaning.

... The parents practically exploded... I was frightened as crap, I was only trying to help them as I saw they misunderstood some info and above all wanted my classmate to just get praesents, god, my teacher had to intervene, I was crying because of their response, I was only eleven, he defended my explanation as accurate and took them out of the room to go talk to them, they were just so confronted by the truth of their own religion, things they can easily look up in the bible that they reacted that out on an eleven year old kid that was only trying to help.

People often claim that religious people are unwilling to accept that the bible is wrong about some things, I think religious people are just as unwilling to accept that the bible sees differently from their interpretation of their own religion. It's 'only human', people are just frightened to accept a thing they always thought was true as false.
 
  • #18
Malik had earlier said he met Ms Siddiqui on the internet and married her over the telephone, which is valid under Islamic law.

But he claimed that the photographs she had sent him were of someone else and therefore his marriage was illegal.

People should be careful when their virtual spouse looks like the girl on the cover of Sports Illustrated. :smile:
 
  • #19
Kajahtava said:
... People don't follow their religion, they make their religion follow them...

I agree.
 

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