Mars Mission - an act of Lunacy or Science?

[earamsey]

Mars Mission -- an act of Lunacy or Science?

1) 6 Month travel to Mars in tiny capsule.

• Currently, a NASA capsule Stinks inside of Vomit, Feces and URINE.
• Capsules are noisy
• Shower consists of moist rag
• Drink recycled urine
• No Gravity -- (You will squish by Mars gravity)
• Nothing to do during voyage to Mars.

2) Too few people because of tiny size of capsule
3) No fresh veggies, fruits, nuts etc...
4) No entertainment
5) Nothing to do on the way to Mars
6) Because of size limitations not much scientific gear can be taken on voyage thus unlike moon missions they have long stay but comparatively little to do.

This sounds like a torture chamber and I'd be afraid to travel with anyone willing to suffer in it. It the superlative of insanity. These are my requirements for mission;

Don't try to settle Mars but build a Mobile Scientific Research Vessel for traveling from place to place in solar system; it will be capable of taking crew of 200 to Pluto in about 3 months. Create Mars outpost stations for scientific study purposes. It will be accessible from Vessel scientists will live on vessel not Mars or perhaps vessel can recover them on returning from other missions.

Vessel Requirements -

• Safe enough for even the old guys to study in space.
• Living quarters configurable to 1, 2, to 3 bed room apartments depending if scientists on mission with family.
• It will have gravity (not by spinning around on a gurney (I'm dizzy going to hurl dude -- Frankenstein technology LOL!)
• It will have powerful engines (non-chemical of course)
• It will have unlimited water for drinking and showers.
• It will have robotics for exploring dangerous regions (Mars, Europa oceans, etc...)
  • robots will be able to walk, run, crawl, swim, and small jet pack
  • robots have feedback of tactile, taste, smell.
  • robots are highly dexterous
  • have tool pack for exploration.
  • controlled by virtual reality or autonomous mode.
• It will have 3 floors. Living quarters floor size of football field, science level 4 football fields, recreation, gardening, live stock size of 4 football fields.
• Recreation area for fun and play (Who wants to not have fun -- no fun I'm not going! LOL)
• Quantum Communications (a method I'm trying to figure out for instantaneous communications)
• Plain Ole Radio Communications
• Deep space probes; basically satellites that can be deployed around stellar bodies like moons, asteroids etc...)
• 2 EMR crafts for emergency return to Earth for the severely ill -- human life is of HIGHEST IMPORTANCE nothing else is acceptable (ethics, morality and a general code of human decency precludes any arguments against this -- suppose to be scientists not butchers)
• Space Elevator that can be used on some stellar bodies to lower people and equipment.
• Excursion vehicles as alternate form to get onto surfaces.
• New spacesuit's that are conducive to working in the field. (I like MIT's skin hugging space suites - http://www.physorg.com/news10683.html
• Photon torpedoes, JUST KIDDING LOL
• Crew of Men, Women (maybe their families -- this will be safe vehicle not the suicide vehicles of NASA) of at least 200.
• Facilities for health care, surgeons, doctors ... people will get sick we are bio organics. To claim to this is not needed is to say if people get sick they will die ... Frankenstein Mentality
• Diverse cultures; no politics either Iran, Russia, Korea (North/South), Palestine, Israel, Afghan, Iraq, Cuba) everyone welcome.

There are those that will say this is too ambitious, grandiose and/or impractical but it is important to remember we are humans first. As such, we are responsible to respect and not endanger the lives of humans or any creature; I think most have had course in ethics. Can NASA go to Mars today, maybe (with great loss of life and little science) ... but under current technology why bother? To beat Russia, China? That's too childish I think humanity has grown much since childish days of American Russian space race.

My idea is reusable, ethically biased towards science, survival and enjoyment as science should be. Not the current obsolete danger is a way of life in space (that is too medieval and reminiscent of an age of bloodletting, butchery and religious dogma -- I don't accept this; no one should). Why haven't we established settlements on ocean floor, why are there no settlements in harsh deserts, then why settle Mars an even more vast arid region by factor of 1000 bathed in unfiltered radiation and a distance of 6794 km from civilization? Suicide missions should not be funded by government! LOL

Also, USA and other countries needs realization that they alone do not have the resources, cash, or know how to 'Go It Alone' (to quote an infamous character -- G.Dubya Bush). I suggest the formation of a "World Space Organization for Advancement of Science and Humankind". No politics policy will be built into charter. All are welcome even if country A invades B no punishing the scientists of A (we were taught in preschool to play nice together this rule does not change with adulthood LOL!). That is it. I hope NASA decide not to create a Mars death mission -- at least not until they have proper technology.

As for human settlement there is no place in our solar system except Earth suitable for animal life. So, take care of the Earth and keep it clean and beautiful. If one is concerned about it's destruction figure out ways of protecting it. For settlement, one needs Tera forming or ability to find a planet COMPATIBLE for Earth based organisms. To think after millions of years of earthly evolution and existence one can up root humans and plant it on harsh Martian environment and expect it to thrive is leaning towards lunacy! What are you a Scientist or Frankenstein Mad Scientist! LOL!

My final message is this. It Seems counterintuitive, counterproductive, and maybe even stupid, to search for life on Mars, or anywhere, with such a reckless disregard, contempt, disrespect and disdain for life, human life!

 

[Equate]

I wonder how many replies this post will get.

 

[junglebeast]

1) Can you please clarify the mission you are referring to? As far as I know, a manned mission to Mars is still pretty much a pipe dream...with no definite plans, and if it does happen, it would probably be decades from now.

2) I agree that the spacecraft should be more spacious and have good entertainment on board, such as movies and games / virtual reality. I also think that cooperative games might help to boost the team's ability to work together outside of the game.

3) NASA is broke, and their allowance is getting reduced every year. They also don't seem to be in a hurry to get men on mars.

 

[earamsey]

1) Can you please clarify the mission you are referring to? As far as I know, a manned mission to Mars is still pretty much a pipe dream...with no definite plans, and if it does happen, it would probably be decades from now.

2) I agree that the spacecraft should be more spacious and have good entertainment on board, such as movies and games / virtual reality. I also think that cooperative games might help to boost the team's ability to work together outside of the game.

3) NASA is broke, and their allowance is getting reduced every year. They also don't seem to be in a hurry to get men on mars.

True, but visit NASA web site. They have definite plans. they are designing vehicles based on the failed Apollo missions (failed because it was rushed and latter abandoned because it was unfeasible (too many close calls and too seat of the pants danger). Why rush to Mars the same way? They are modeling it after the brilliant, Robert Zubrinm, but of questionable sanity Mars Direct Plan.

I think a gravity generator can be made by compressing energy into a small space. curving the space-time within the vehicle.

 

[russ_watters]

Astronauts are tougher than you give them credit for. This isn't a luxury cruise, it is a discovery mission. The rest of the post is just sci-fantasy. Ie, 3 months to Pluto? And you base that on...sounds good in your head?

 

[russ_watters]

they are designing vehicles based on the failed Apollo missions (failed because it was rushed and latter abandoned because it was unfeasible (too many close calls and too seat of the pants danger).

You are assigning goals to Apollo that it didn't have. Apollo was a spectacular success at what it was designed to do.

 

[Blenton]

Well the shower thing might seem mediocre, but in all fairness try go without a shower for 6 months.. and the 'dry' method of cleaning won't suffice.

 

[earamsey]

Astronauts are tougher than you give them credit for. This isn't a luxury cruise, it is a discovery mission. The rest of the post is just sci-fantasy. Ie, 3 months to Pluto? And you base that on...sounds good in your head?

Forget the toughness act. My idea is to practice science not machismo. Although it is not luxury cruise, it will be enjoyable. My idea is that anyone one can attend, even the old crusty scientists, not just those that want to outback adventure in space. Don't you want to have science in a relaxed, user friendly and fun environment? The days of astronauts dominating space are short. It's for everyone!

3 month voyage to Pluto? Possible, depends if power-plant can generate force. True, inertial mass maybe high because of equipment and personnel but it is doable. But I pulled that figure out of my head. Basically, to say in a reasonable amount of time. It will take some time to develop technology but together with other nations united under guidance of "World Space Organization for Advancement of Science and Humankind" it could be accomplished fast enough.

 

[earamsey]

You are assigning goals to Apollo that it didn't have. Apollo was a spectacular success at what it was designed to do.

That is my very point. The goals were misguided at best. I think some NASA scientists would agree that they did not intend on politically based space initiative. If I recall, NASA had other plans for exploration but forced into Apollo to appease public. That is not science and ended up in the needless meaningless deaths of 3 people.

 

[earamsey]

As I said there will be those who insist in dangerous life threatening missions is the way to do science. If they existed in the days of horse and carriage they would have also insisted that automobile is science fiction and not required. Same for airplane, in fact, scientists of the day claimed that power aircraft were an impossible feat based on science ... "It says so on page 65 of my textbook" ... LOL

So much for the nay sayers. Of course, ultimately they are the least common denominator. I know many textbook trained scientists often enjoy explaining why a technology is impossible until someone accomplishes it. LOL! Then they spend their lives trying to disprove it often in failure (I pitied this about Einstein wish he helped quantum revolution *sigh*)

Science marches on. If USA does not wake up and followed plans similar to my own it will be left behind my the more industrious, imaginative and bright young minds of up and coming nations. To play catch up like in the days of Japans use of robotics in automative industry ... LOL!

 

[junglebeast]

I think a gravity generator can be made by compressing energy into a small space. curving the space-time within the vehicle.

To put that in layman's terms, "if we make the ship as heavy as a planet, it will be just like having gravity on Earth!"

Yeah, that's true...but there are a few problems with that idea of yours:

1) Where do you get the same amount of mass as all of Earth combined?
2) How do you compress it into the size of a spaceship? That would require something like a black hole (which we can't create, and wouldn't be safe if we did).
3) Why do you care about compressing it at all? It makes no difference how big the ship is unless you want to dodge asteroids.
4) Are you aware of the law of conservation of momentum and that P = MV ? In other words, the amount of energy needed to propel a ship through space is proportional to the mass of the ship. IN OTHER WORDS...even if we could create a ship with a comfortable mass to simulate Earth-like gravity, we couldn't propel it. Basically, it would be easier to just use the Earth as a spaceship than to implement your idea.

Finally, there are much easier ways to simulate gravity. One is to use the electromagnetic force (ie, magnetic boots), and the other is to use centripetal force. Both are quite easy to accomplish, and are the basis for artificial gravity in pretty much every science fiction work.

Note: heavy boots do not solve the problem. :rofl:

 

[D H]

Photon torpedoes, JUST KIDDING LOL

The JUST KIDDING LOL applies to just about everything else on your list, too. A vehicle "capable of taking crew of 200 to Pluto in about 3 months" is pure science fiction. Just because actors can do something on Star Trek doesn't make it real.

 

[russ_watters]

Forget the toughness act. My idea is to practice science not machismo.

You're going in the opposite direction, saying scientists are wusses!

Although it is not luxury cruise, it will be enjoyable. My idea is that anyone one can attend, even the old crusty scientists, not just those that want to outback adventure in space. Don't you want to have science in a relaxed, user friendly and fun environment?

You're just talking fantasy. Sometimes science requires an "outback adventure", and not just in space. Field science can be difficult.

3 month voyage to Pluto? Possible, depends if power-plant can generate force.

Since we have no propulsion system (power plant) that can do it, basically, you just said it is possible in your fantasy. How is that useful?

 

[russ_watters]

Ehh, nevermind. This is pointless. Thread locked.