Mass addition due to gravitational acceleration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of gravitational acceleration on mass addition, particularly in the context of supermassive black holes. Participants explore concepts related to energy, potential energy, and kinetic energy within the framework of general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether time dilation affects the kinetic energy formula K.E.=0.5mv² and how this relates to mass addition at relativistic speeds.
  • Another participant notes that in general relativity, energy can be complex to handle, but in specific scenarios, the total energy of a system remains unchanged as objects fall into a supermassive black hole, losing potential energy (PE) and gaining kinetic energy (KE).
  • A participant expresses gratitude for the clarification regarding the relationship between potential energy and kinetic energy, indicating a shift in their understanding.
  • Another participant raises a question about the nature of potential energy, suggesting that if gravitational attraction exists universally, it could imply an infinite amount of potential energy.
  • A later reply clarifies that potential energy does not have a defined beginning or end, but mathematically it is finite, and discusses the concept of escape velocity in relation to kinetic and potential energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and uncertainty, particularly regarding the nature of potential energy and its implications. There is no consensus on the infinite nature of potential energy or the specifics of how time dilation affects energy calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding energy in general relativity, particularly regarding the definitions and mathematical treatment of potential and kinetic energy. There are unresolved questions about the implications of gravitational acceleration on mass addition and energy conservation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring concepts in general relativity, gravitational physics, and the interplay between potential and kinetic energy in extreme gravitational fields.

Anthony24
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I read an article about super massive black holes that are millions a billion times larger than our sun. In reading this article i began thinking about gravitational acceleration and what the effects would be on incoming objects. I ran through a bunch of equations and found that the mass gain would be over 100 million kg per kg at 98% the speed of light. My questions are: Does time dilation change the energy in a system K.E=.5mv^2 (as this would change mass addition), and does E=mc^2 still apply to gravitational acceleration since it is just the bending of space time?
 
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Hi Anthony24, welcome to PF!

Energy is notoriously difficult to handle in GR, but in certain scenarios it does make sense: see http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/Relativity/GR/energy_gr.html

In the case of a supermassive black hole as something falls in it loses PE and gains KE so the total energy of the system is unchanged.
 
Wow thank you so much for that, i had not put together to relation between potential energy and kinetic energy in the system. That answers my question perfectly and nullifies some pages of math work :( oh well, thanks a bunch!
 
Okay if this is true then where does potential energy end and begin? It stands to reason that we also have the potential to be pulled toward any object in the universe. Would that not mean we have an infinite amount of potential energy? Please forgive my lack of familiarity with this concept.
 
The PE does not end or begin at a certain location, but because of the way that the math works it turns out to be finite anyway. It is therefore possible for an object to have more kinetic energy than potential energy, the speed corresponding to the kinetic energy which would be exactly equal to the potential energy is called escape velocity.
 

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