Mass dropped with preloaded spring

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of additional compression (xadd) of a preloaded spring when a mass is dropped from a certain height (h). Participants explore the implications of preload on the final compressed length of the spring and whether additional compression occurs regardless of the drop height. The conversation includes theoretical considerations, mathematical reasoning, and numerical simulations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the final compressed spring length is the same with or without preload, with one asserting it is not the same.
  • There is a claim that the spring receives additional compression (xadd > 0) regardless of the drop height, even at very small heights like h = 0.001.
  • One participant presents an energy conservation approach to derive equations for E1 and E2, leading to a quadratic equation for xadd.
  • Another participant expresses a shift in focus from finding an algebraic solution to using numerical methods to determine the height corresponding to a specific xadd.
  • There is a discussion about the correctness of the derived equations, with one participant expressing uncertainty about their validity but noting that the results seem reasonable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of preload on the spring's behavior or the correctness of the derived equations. Multiple competing views and methods for solving the problem are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the assumptions made in their calculations and the implications of different scenarios (e.g., mass orientation). The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and varying interpretations of energy conservation principles.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying mechanics, particularly in the context of spring dynamics, energy conservation, and problem-solving techniques in physics.

carb
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Hello everybody,
I'm trying to figure out how to calculate xadd, the additional compression of a preloaded spring (initially compressed of xp) on which a mass is dropped from a height "h".
I also wonder :
- if the final compressed spring length is the same with or without preload ?
- if the spring receive an additional compression xadd >0 whatever the drop height ? (even at h=0.001 ?)

I have some remembering about my academic studies (Energy conservation laws applied to spring) but I feel quite uncomfortable since I did not practice for a long time. Thanks a lot for any kind of help.

before_drop.png
lowest_height.png
 
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carb said:
the final compressed spring length is the same with or without preload ?
It is not the same.
carb said:
the spring receive an additional compression xadd >0 whatever the drop height ? (even at h=0.001 ?)
Yes it does.

Consider the energy of the cylinder, just before the frame hits the ground:
E1 = m*g*(L-xp) + ½*m*v2
Now consider the energy, E2 , when the cylinder has been brought to a halt ( last figure ).

The difference in energies: ( E1 - E2 ) must have been absorbed by the spring, so:

( E1 - E2 ) = ∫xadd Fspring(x) dx
 
Last edited:
Hello Hesch !
Thanks to your help I did it this way :
E1 (just before hit) = m*g*(L-xp) + ½*m*v2 + ½*k*xp2
with v = √(2*g*h)
E2 (just before rebund phase) = m*g*(L -xp -xadd) + 0 + ½*k*(xp + xadd)2

Then E1 = E2 led me to this factorisation form (xadd as variable) :
½*k*xadd2 + (k*xp - m*g)*xadd - m*g*h = 0

but I actually changed my mind about the study result and decided to get xadd as an input and to find the corresponding height ("how high can I drop the cylinder to get exactly 100% of potential energy absorbed by the spring").

==> h = [½*k*xadd2 + (k*xp - m*g)*xadd] / (m*g)

k: 10 000N/m
m: 1kg
g: 9.81 m/s2

Spring
L: 0.010 m
xp: 0.003 m
xadd_max: 0.006 m (considering a minimal spring contiguous wire height of 0.001 m)

calculation led to h_max = 0.0307m (max height avoiding potential energy causing impact on the ground)

to confirm the results, here is what I got using a mechanism simulation software :
(velocity as initial condition of the dynamic study (just before hit) : v = √(2*g*h) = 776.067 mm/s)

Good to see that lowest reached position is 1mm according to minimal spring height used is previous calculation (contiguous wire)
results.png


I hope the results are not accidentally good :nb).
Thanks again Hesch ! :wink:
 
carb said:
but I actually changed my mind about the study result and decided to get xadd as an input and to find the corresponding height ("how high can I drop the cylinder to get exactly 100% of potential energy absorbed by the spring").
What ?? So you gave up finding an algebraic solution, and started playing with numbers instead ?

Well, I calculated that

E1 = m*g*(L-xp) + ½*m*2*g*h = m*g*(h+L-xp)
E2 = m*g*(L-xp-xadd)

E1-E2 = m*g*(h+xadd)

Espring = k*(xp*xadd + ½*xadd2 )

More calculations leads to:

½*xadd2 + (xp-1)*xadd - h*m*g/k = 0 ( solve xadd )

I'm not sure if this is correct, but anyway it makes sense that the calculations ends up in a 2. order equation, giving two solutions:
One when the box is dropped with the spring below the mass, the other when the box is dropped upside down. :smile:
 
Hello Hesch,
I need to re-do your calculations now ;)
Thank you for your help and explanation !
 

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