News Massive Fire at Notre Dame cathedral

BillTre

Science Advisor
Gold Member
2018 Award
1,026
1,517
Here is a NY Times article on the fire, the fire response (including planned removal of artifacts), and the lack of sprinklers and fire walls in the attic (which was called the "forest"), the fire department's awareness of the potential for fire. It also has a nice diagram of the attic structure which makes the spread of the fire very understandable.
242026

Also the building had a lead roof.

They still think it was accidental, but the exact cause is yet to be determined.
Renovation workers had left before the fire was noticed.

I read somewhere else that the building had been laser-scanned about a year ago, which is expected to help in reconstruction.
 
Last edited:

Klystron

Gold Member
291
304
The fact that the prayer was put to music was new to me too, despite having been raised catholic. However, that appears to be quite recent, as the composer was born in 1974:
For your edification the prayer "Hail, Mary" was put to music long before the 20th Century.

At seminary-college in the 1960's I played a popular version of "Ave Maria" attributed to Johann Sebastian Bach arranged for pipe organ. Legend has it that Bach wrote the tune after being given a penance to recite some number of repetitions of the prayer but preferred to play it on an organ. A more prosaic version notes that Bach wrote many religious songs while selling organs to churches and cathedrals.

Bach's arrangement of "Ave Maria" remains one of my favorite songs to sing in Latin and Spanish (English versions fail to scan IMO). I was taught much older versions of "Ave Maria" arranged for lute and guitar but do not remember sources.
 

DrClaude

Mentor
6,810
2,929
For your edification the prayer "Hail, Mary" was put to music long before the 20th Century.
I didn't know of any French version. I was surprised because it seemed popular enough that people in the street (who I would assume don't all know each other) would start signing it.
 
524
216
For your edification the prayer "Hail, Mary" was put to music long before the 20th Century.

At seminary-college in the 1960's I played a popular version of "Ave Maria" attributed to Johann Sebastian Bach arranged for pipe organ. Legend has it that Bach wrote the tune after being given a penance to recite some number of repetitions of the prayer but preferred to play it on an organ. A more prosaic version notes that Bach wrote many religious songs while selling organs to churches and cathedrals.

Bach's arrangement of "Ave Maria" remains one of my favorite songs to sing in Latin and Spanish (English versions fail to scan IMO). I was taught much older versions of "Ave Maria" arranged for lute and guitar but do not remember sources.
Franz Schubert's Ellen's Song, which begins with the words "Ave Maria" is the one with the familiar vocal melody.

J.S. Bach's Prelude No. 1 in C Major was arranged as Ave Maria by Charles Gounod.
 
1,227
2,280
A terrible loss, I hope they can save the main structure, they managed to do it with York Minster in 1984
I visited York a long time ago in the eighties, I guess in 1984 or 1985, I don't remember, but I do think it was after the fire. I remember York as a very nice city with lots of historical sites, and I remember the York Minster very well. Here's a photo of mine from the visit:

33770663998_64eae3a261_c.jpg
 

atyy

Science Advisor
13,383
1,523
For your edification the prayer "Hail, Mary" was put to music long before the 20th Century.

At seminary-college in the 1960's I played a popular version of "Ave Maria" attributed to Johann Sebastian Bach arranged for pipe organ. Legend has it that Bach wrote the tune after being given a penance to recite some number of repetitions of the prayer but preferred to play it on an organ. A more prosaic version notes that Bach wrote many religious songs while selling organs to churches and cathedrals.

Bach's arrangement of "Ave Maria" remains one of my favorite songs to sing in Latin and Spanish (English versions fail to scan IMO). I was taught much older versions of "Ave Maria" arranged for lute and guitar but do not remember sources.
As @sysprog says, Bach did not write or arrange "Ave Maria". Bach wrote a keyboard prelude, without the Ave Maria tune. Quite a few years later, Gounod added his original Ave Maria tune on top of the Bach prelude - ingenious and beautiful.

Bach prelude:



Bach prelude + Gonoud tune
 
Last edited:

atyy

Science Advisor
13,383
1,523
524
216
J.S. Bach's Prelude No. 1 in C Major, from Well Tempered Clavier, was published in 1722.

Gounod's melodic superimposition thereon, leaving the Prelude mostly otherwise unchanged, was published in 1853.

In between, 'Ellen's Song', a hymn addressed to Mary, that was part of his 'Lady of the Lake' cycle, was published by Franz Schubert in 1825.

Its lyrics, which began with 'Ave Maria', were soon thereafter changed in popular versions to more closely resemble the Catholic prayer in commemoration of the Salutation and Annunciation of Gabriel the Archangel to Miriam (Mary), in which Gabriel announced to Mary that she was to become mother of a son, by the power of the Most High overshadowing her, and causing her to conceive a child, though as she said, she did not know a man, and that she was to call the child Yeshua (Jesus).

Here is Luciano Pavorotti singing the song set to Schubert's composition:

 
Last edited:

OmCheeto

Gold Member
2,023
2,364
I visited York a long time ago in the eighties, I guess in 1984 or 1985, I don't remember, but I do think it was after the fire. I remember York as a very nice city with lots of historical sites, and I remember the York Minster very well. Here's a photo of mine from the visit:

View attachment 242183
Thanks for posting that picture.
Along with the things I listed previously that I didn't know about Notre Dame.

I also:
1. could not have identified a picture of it.​
Guessing a lot of really old cathedrals look alike:​
2019.04.20.old.churches.png
2. "notre" means "our" in French.​
So the church's name means "Our Lady of Paris".​
ps. Please don't yell at me about those "anno" numbers. They are very complicated.
 
524
216
OmCheeto said:
ps. Please don't yell at me about those "anno" numbers. They are very complicated.
Not very complicated -- 'Anno 1161' is the expanded version of AD 1161, with the 'Domini' part of the term omitted. :oldwink:
 

OmCheeto

Gold Member
2,023
2,364
Not very complicated -- 'Anno 1161' is the expanded version of AD 1161, with the 'Domini' part of the term omitted. :oldwink:
Well, if you read the wiki entry on "York Minster", you'll find that the church now, is not the same church that was built in 627.

The first recorded church on the site was a wooden structure built hurriedly in 627...
In 741, the church was destroyed in a fire.
...

Guessing the other cathedrals had similar histories.
 
524
216
Well, if you read the wiki entry on "York Minster", you'll find that the church now, is not the same church that was built in 627.

The first recorded church on the site was a wooden structure built hurriedly in 627...
In 741, the church was destroyed in a fire.
...

Guessing the other cathedrals had similar histories.
Apparently I misconstrued what you meant by the Anno numbers being complicated -- I agree that the associated histories are rather complicated as to what is reported to have been built when.
 

Want to reply to this thread?

"Massive Fire at Notre Dame cathedral" You must log in or register to reply here.

Physics Forums Values

We Value Quality
• Topics based on mainstream science
• Proper English grammar and spelling
We Value Civility
• Positive and compassionate attitudes
• Patience while debating
We Value Productivity
• Disciplined to remain on-topic
• Recognition of own weaknesses
• Solo and co-op problem solving

Hot Threads

Top