Math used in this equation rearrangement?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter MarchON
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical rearrangement of an equation related to the thermal interaction between a car and water, specifically focusing on how much water is needed to raise the car's temperature from -25°C to 0°C while considering the latent heat of fusion. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification regarding heat transfer and phase changes.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation for the thermal interaction, questioning the algebraic rearrangement and the role of latent heat of fusion.
  • Another participant suggests there may be a mistake in the algebra and asks for clarification on the inclusion of latent heat of fusion.
  • A third participant challenges the consistency of units in the proposed equation.
  • One participant explains that latent heat of fusion is relevant because the water transitions from liquid to solid as it interacts with the car.
  • Another participant provides a corrected version of the equation and highlights the need for proper brackets in the mathematical expression.
  • Further clarification is requested on the algebraic steps involved in rearranging the equation.
  • A participant breaks down the algebra step-by-step, demonstrating how to isolate the mass of water in the equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the algebraic manipulation and the role of latent heat of fusion, indicating that multiple competing interpretations exist. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the accuracy of the initial equation and the implications of the latent heat term.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made in the equations, the dependence on specific definitions of terms, and the consistency of units throughout the discussion.

MarchON
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I'm trying to determine how much water it takes to raise a car's temperature from -25°C to 0°C. The water is at 10°C.

What I apparently need to have set up is:

-ΔUint,water = ΔUint,car

-(mwcwΔTw) - mwLf,w = mcccΔTc

The resultant rearranged equation looking for mass of water gives this:

mw = -(mcccΔTc)/cwΔTw - mwLf,w

I don't understand how this was done. Also, why are you subtracting Latent heat of fusion x Mass from mwcwΔTw?
 
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Looks like there's a mistake in the algebra, then. What do you think that eqn should be?

Q for you: why does latent heat of fusion enter into the picture at all?
 
MarchON said:
The resultant rearranged equation looking for mass of water gives this:

mw = -(mcccΔTc)/cwΔTw - mwLf,w

Says who?

(Hint: are the units consistent?)
 
Latent heat of fusion is in the picture because the water is going from a liquid to a solid. It freezes when it hits the car, then at a certain point it doesn't because the car warms up to 0 degrees. And I don't know what's up with the equation, but that's what my professor's solution says. Based on my math, I got something that makes no sense:

0= mcarccarΔTcar/CwΔTw + Lf
 
The left side should be mw. You need a pair of brackets on the right side, and then it should look right.
 
I don't understand how. Is there any way (and I know this is no easy task) to break down the algebra step by step for me?
Also, I made a mistake with the resultant equation in my first post. It's actually mw = -(mcccΔTc)/cwΔTw - Lf,w (no - mwLf,w)

I realize that ends up being the same thing that you said and there is no error (but he kept the negatives in, whereas we canceled them out), but I still don't understand how.
 
You started with this: -mwcwΔTw - mwLf,w = mcccΔTc
Taking out a common factor -mw we have
-mw(cwΔTw +Lf,w)= mcccΔTc

Now divide both sides by (cwΔTw +Lf,w)
and we are left with
-mw = mcccΔTc / (cwΔTw +Lf,w)

Multiplying both sides by -1 so that we end up with mw by itself,
mw = -mcccΔTc / (cwΔTw +Lf,w)

The brackets I said you needed are those in the denominator; the ones you added in the numerator make no difference.
 

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