Matrix Representations of the Poincare Group

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the matrix representations of the Poincare Group, focusing on its generators, which include Lorentz transformations and translations. Participants explore the mathematical structure and representation of these generators in the context of theoretical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the Poincare Group has 10 generators: 6 Lorentz generators for rotations and boosts, and 4 corresponding to translations in ℝ1,3.
  • Another participant explains that the Poincare group is formed by taking a semidirect product with the translation group, resulting in a 5-dimensional representation using 5x5 matrices.
  • A subsequent post lists specific matrix forms for the Lorentz transformations (rotations and boosts) and proposes a representation for the translation generators.
  • Another participant challenges the previous claim by stating that the matrices presented are not the generators but rather the 1-parameter groups they generate, suggesting that the derivatives at zero should be taken to find the actual generators.
  • A later reply expresses appreciation for the correction, indicating a willingness to learn from the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the identification of the matrices as generators versus 1-parameter groups. There is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the matrices presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' claims depend on the definitions of generators and 1-parameter groups, and the discussion does not resolve the mathematical nuances involved in these definitions.

cuallito
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I'm trying to 'see' what the generators of the Poincare Group are. From what I understand, it has 10 generators. 6 are the Lorentz generators for rotations/boosts, and 4 correspond to translations in ℝ1,3 since PoincareGroup = ℝ1,3 ⋊ SO(1,3).

The 6 Lorentz generators are easy enough to find in the literature. They are:
lorentz generators.PNG

I cannot find the ℝ1,3 generators explicitly stated anywhere. My naive guess is that since the other four generators correspond to translations in ℝ1,3, we get the other 4 generators by exponentiating the 4 translation matrices for ℝ1,3.

translations.png


Is that correct?
 
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To get the Poincare group you need to take a semidirect product with the translation group. This means that you get a 5-dimensional representation by 5x5 matrices ##\pmatrix{A & t \cr 0 & 1}##, where ##A## is a Lorentz transformation and ##t## a translation vector. The relevant orbit of this matrix action is the set of 5D vectors
##\pmatrix{x \cr 1}##, where ##x## is a point in Minkowski space.
 
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Likes   Reactions: PeroK, dextercioby, vanhees71 and 2 others
Thanks Prof. Neumaier, so would the generators then be the six rotations/boosts

$$
R_x = \begin{pmatrix}
1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & cos \theta & -sin \theta & 0\\
0 & 0 & sin \theta & cos \theta & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}

~
R_y = \begin{pmatrix}
1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & cos\theta & 0 & sin\theta & 0\\
0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0\\
0 & -sin\theta & 0 & cos\theta & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}

~
R_z =
\begin{pmatrix}
1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & cos\theta & -sin\theta & 0 & 0\\
0 & sin\theta & cos\theta & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}

$$
$$

B_x =
\begin{pmatrix}
cosh \theta & sinh \theta & 0 & 0 & 0\\
sinh \theta & cosh \theta & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}

~
B_y = \begin{pmatrix}
cosh \theta & 0 & sinh \theta & 0 & 0\\
0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
sinh \theta & 0 & cosh \theta & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}

~
B_z = \begin{pmatrix}
cosh \theta & 0 & 0 & sinh \theta & 0\\
0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0\\
sinh \theta & 0 & 0 & cosh \theta & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}

$$

Plus the four the translations represented like this?

$$ T_t = \begin{pmatrix}1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & -c t\\ 0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\ 0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0\\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0\\ 0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1\end{pmatrix}

T_x = \begin{pmatrix}
1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & x\\
0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}
~
T_y = \begin{pmatrix}
1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & y\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}
~
T_z = \begin{pmatrix}
1 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 1 & 0 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 1 & 0 & 0\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 1 & z\\
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 & 1
\end{pmatrix}

$$
 
Last edited:
cuallito said:
would the generators then be the six rotations/boosts
Plus the four the translations represented like this?
Generators have no free parameters left but each of your matrices contains such a parameter.

What you wrote down is not describing generators but the 1-parameter groups they are generating. Taking the derivatives at zero gives the generators.
 
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Likes   Reactions: vanhees71 and cuallito
Thanks professor, like a true scientist, I'm always happy to know when I'm wrong 👍🤪👍
 

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