Max/Min Time Dilation: What is the Scale?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of time dilation in the context of special relativity and gravitational effects. Participants explore the theoretical limits of time dilation, questioning the minimum and maximum rates of time as influenced by speed and gravitational fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the mass required to create a gravitational field strong enough to reduce gravitational time dilation to zero.
  • There is a suggestion that at the speed of light, the passage of time is effectively zero, while at rest and in a negligible gravitational field, time could be considered to flow normally.
  • One participant argues that all clocks record one second per second, implying that it is the measurement of time that changes rather than the clocks themselves.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of a min/max scale for time, suggesting that it should also consider length and speed, emphasizing the interconnectedness of time and space.
  • Concerns are raised about the premise that a clock moving at the speed of light would not tick at all, with a clarification that no clock can actually move at the speed of light.
  • Some participants discuss the nature of time dilation, noting that it is defined in relation to clock comparisons and is not absolute across the universe.
  • There is mention of reciprocal and non-reciprocal clock relations, highlighting the complexity of comparing time rates between different clocks.
  • One participant references the Lorentz factor in relation to time dilation, questioning whether it represents a scale of time.
  • Another participant emphasizes that time is relative and that no single clock can provide an absolute time scale, as different observers may perceive time differently.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views and remains unresolved. Participants express differing opinions on the nature of time, the implications of time dilation, and the validity of proposed scales.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of time dilation, including the dependence on specific conditions such as gravitational fields and relative motion. There is also a recognition of the complexities involved in comparing time rates between different clocks.

  • #31
ghwellsjr said:
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. What post # is this in?

In post 22 you said that einstein removed the infinities in section 4.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
PAllen said:
Actually, it was universally accepted from Galileo's time, except for a short, confusing period in the 1800s, before Einstein re-established Galileo's principle: you cannot distinguish a state of rest; all inertial frames are equivalent. However, this principle plus Maxwell's equations required some conceptual changes to space and time.

I was referring to the notion of two observers relative to each other both observing the other as being slower.
 
  • #33
salvestrom said:
I was referring to the notion of two observers relative to each other both observing the other as being slower.

Ah, but that's the only way to preserve the principle of relativity. If some inertial observer sees 'fast clocks run slow', and another inertial observer sees 'fast clocks run fast', we have different laws for different inertial observers. As soon as you admit time dilation at all, 'fast clocks slow' for both is the only way to make it work while preserving equivalence of inertial frames.
 
Last edited:
  • #34
PAllen said:
Traveling 22 light seconds of Anthony's distance, Cleo will experience 1 second. Traveling 22 light second of Cleo's distance, Anthony will experience 1 second.

Can you ellaborate please on "Anthoney's distance" and "Cleo's distance".
 
  • #35
salvestrom said:
Can you ellaborate please on "Anthoney's distance" and "Cleo's distance".

Mathematically, you define distance in SR as the invariant interval (geodesic length) between a pair of simultaneous events. In relativity, simultaneity differs between observers in relative motion. As a result, their notions of distance also differ.

More physically, you can define distance using some reasonable procedure, e.g. parallax, image size, radar ranging. However, the first two relate a nearby size or distance with a distant size or big distance. Thus they need a definition of distance to get started. You can use radar ranging (or light travel time) to get started, or as your main definition. Going with radar for simplicity (in SR it is provable that they are all the same, for inertial observers), consider what Anthony and Cleopatra do. If each measures distance to some third object (in some state of motion), the round trip light paths will be radically different because of the relative motion between Anthony and Cleopatra. Thus, they measure the universe completely differently.
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Confused about time dilation -- motion vs energy
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
Undergrad Regarding centrifugal effects on the time dilation of a moving clock
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
2K
High School Calculating Time taken to reach speed with Time Dilation
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
Undergrad Question about the reciprocity of time dilation
  • · Replies 88 ·
3
Replies
88
Views
8K
High School Reciprocal time dilation
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
Undergrad A question about Relativity of Time using Time dilation experiment
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Undergrad What causes time dilation and length contraction
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
High School Simplest symmetrical time dilation question
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
Undergrad A matter of time dilation: how much time has actually passed?
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K
Undergrad Time Dilation in Gravitational Fields vs Acceleration on Earth
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K