Maximal static friction problem

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The discussion centers on the relationship between static friction and the force required to move a stationary object, particularly on a slope. It clarifies that the minimum force needed to initiate movement equals the maximum static friction, but confusion arises regarding whether this force must exceed the maximum static friction to prevent movement. Participants debate the interpretation of static friction, emphasizing that if the applied force equals the maximum static friction, the object will not move until the force exceeds this threshold. The conversation also critiques a textbook statement about the conditions for movement, suggesting that a slight increase beyond the maximum static friction would indeed cause motion. Ultimately, the key takeaway is that the force must be greater than the maximum static friction for movement to occur.
Black Riven
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This is mostly a theoretical question, I'm studying mechanics by myself so I have no teacher to ask this.

Homework Statement



The minimum force needed to move a stationary object is equal to the max static friction. However, I just encountered a question that included a sloped surface and an object moving upwards across it.

Eventually, mgcos(a)+Fk bring it to a halt, and the question is what should the minimal static friction constant be in order for the object to remain stationary.

The Attempt at a Solution



Fs must be strong enough to hold out against mgcos(a). The equation we are supposed to have is Fs-mgcos(a)=0
However, this confuses me. If when a force applied on the object equals to Fs(max) it causes it to move, Shouldn't the force needed to keep the object from moving be Fs>mgcos(a)?

In other words, is Fs(max) the breaking point or the last point before movement occurs?
 
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It sounds like the question should read "minimal static friction constant"
 
Black Riven said:
The minimum force needed to move a stationary object is equal to the max static friction.
Assuming a level surface, why do you say "equal to"? If an object is at rest and the max static friction force available is 20N and you push on it with a 20N force, will it move?
Eventually, mgcos(a)+Fk bring it to a halt, and the question is what should the minimal kinetic friction constant be in order for the object to remain stationary.
As noted above, change the word 'kinetic' to 'static'.
If when a force applied on the object equals to Fs(max) it causes it to move,
does it?
Shouldn't the force needed to keep the object from moving be Fs>mgcos(a)?
What does Newton's first law tell you?
 
PhanthomJay said:
Assuming a level surface, why do you say "equal to"? If an object is at rest and the max static friction force available is 20N and you push on it with a 20N force, will it move?
This is the problem then. My intuition tells me that no, it will not move because the force must be bigger than Fs(max). However, the book I'm using says
The minimal force which causes relative movement between two bodies that share contact equals to the maximal static friction
Based on your answer I assume my intuition is correct? If Fs(max)=F the object will not move, and the minute F>Fs(max) it will start moving.
If that's the case any idea why the book says what it does?
PhanthomJay said:
As noted above, change the word 'kinetic' to 'static'.
Done.
 
I think it's just saying that if the max static friction force is 20.000000000N, a force of 20.000000001N will, in theory, cause it to move. Close enough to 20, I guess.
 
The book claims the answer is that all the magnitudes are the same because "the gravitational force on the penguin is the same". I'm having trouble understanding this. I thought the buoyant force was equal to the weight of the fluid displaced. Weight depends on mass which depends on density. Therefore, due to the differing densities the buoyant force will be different in each case? Is this incorrect?

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