Maximum speed of anything, temperature

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between temperature, particle motion, and the implications of relativistic physics on maximum achievable temperatures. It explores theoretical limits and practical considerations regarding temperature in the context of particle vibrations and energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if temperature is related to particle vibrations and nothing moves faster than light, this might imply a fundamental limit to the maximum temperature achievable.
  • Others argue that while speed has an upper limit (the speed of light), kinetic energy does not have a defined upper limit in special relativity, suggesting that temperature could theoretically reach infinity.
  • A participant notes that classical temperature is proportional to thermal kinetic energy and discusses the implications of relativistic kinetic energy approaching infinity as particle velocity nears the speed of light.
  • Some participants mention that at extremely high temperatures, atoms cannot remain intact due to energetic collisions, referencing the Planck temperature as a significant threshold.
  • There is a query regarding the value of the Planck temperature, which is confirmed to be around 10^32 kelvin.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether there is a fundamental limit to temperature based on particle motion and energy considerations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these ideas.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the relationship between temperature and kinetic energy, as well as the definitions of temperature in classical versus relativistic contexts. The discussion also touches on unresolved mathematical steps regarding kinetic energy at relativistic speeds.

Learnphysics
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If temperature or heat, is particles vibrating, and nothing moves faster then light. Doesn't this create a fundamental limit to the temperature that can be reached?
 
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Temperature depends on the kinetic energy of the vibrating atoms, not their speed. Speed has an upper limit of c, but kinetic energy has no upper limit (at least in SR):

[tex]K = \frac {m_0 c^2} { \sqrt {1 - v^2 / c^2}} - m_0 c^2[/tex]
 
Learnphysics said:
If temperature or heat, is particles vibrating, and nothing moves faster then light. Doesn't this create a fundamental limit to the temperature that can be reached?

Classically temperature is proportional to the thermal kinetic energy. The formula for relativistic kinetic energy goes to infinity as the particle velocity aproaches the speed of light. This limits the maximum temperature of a system to the temperature achieved if an infinite amount of energy is added, which effectively puts the temperature limit at infinity too.

On a more practical level, atoms can not remain atoms above certain temperatures as they are smashed by highly energetic collisions. Some say the highest know temperature was the temperature of the universe one Planck interval after the big bang and that is equivalent to the Planck temperature ( about [tex]10^{32}[/tex] kelvin ). Some other opinions can be found here : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/zero/hot.html
 
Last edited:
Isn't the Planck temperature around 10^32?
 
Snazzy said:
Isn't the Planck temperature around 10^32?

Yes. Sorry. Corrected the typo ;)
 

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