Measurements of the Sun's radiance and ray tracing

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measurement of solar radiance using a custom-built instrument designed for Sun Photometry. Participants explore the geometry and optics involved in simulating sunlight and the challenges faced in accurately modeling the sun's rays for this purpose.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their project to measure solar radiance at 500 nm using a photodetector and discusses the necessary angular field of view for capturing sunlight.
  • There is a suggestion that an angular field of view of 2.5 degrees is optimal for sun photometry, which is larger than the sun's angular size of approximately 0.53 degrees.
  • The participant mentions using a simulation tool (RayViz in Solidworks) to model sunlight entering the aperture and expresses confusion about how to accurately simulate the sun's rays.
  • Another participant argues against treating the sun as a point source, emphasizing that rays from the sun arrive nearly parallel due to its vast distance from Earth.
  • There is a clarification regarding the scaling of the sun in the model, with a participant reiterating the ratio of the sun's diameter to its distance from Earth.
  • One participant acknowledges a potential misunderstanding in their approach to modeling the sun's light as a lambertian surface.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the appropriate modeling of the sun's rays, with some arguing for a point source approach while others emphasize the parallel nature of sunlight. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method for simulating sunlight in the context of the participant's project.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of scaling the sun in simulations and the assumptions underlying the modeling of sunlight as a lambertian surface versus a point source.

Tone L
Messages
72
Reaction score
7
TL;DR
Building a simple instrument to effectively collimate sunlight and measure the digital counts on a photo detector.
Summary:
This is a hobbyist project I am working on. I am building an instrument to measure radiance from the sun at 500 nm, using optically filtered photodetector with bandwidth ± 10 nm. This type of science can be called Sun Photometry, so let's get to it!

Geometry for Optics:
The sun has an angular size of about .53 degrees, this is a simple calculation, angular size = arctan(d/D), where d is diameter of the sun and D is distance from the sun from Earth. With that being said, you would need an instrument with an angular field of view equal or larger than .53 degrees to view the disk of the sun.

However, due to homogeneity of our atmosphere and the resulting aural around the sun it has been stated in that an angular field of view of 2.5 degrees for instrumentation is best for sun photometry, approximately five times the angular size of the sun.

Design:
We need angular field of view to equal 2.5, so will have a collimating tube of 110 cm and an aperture of 5 mm assuming the detector is a point.
2.56 = arctan(5/110), painted black with 90% absorbance.
Here is a CAD of the optical block.
optical_block.PNG


Where things go astray...
Simulation:
I was curious how much sunlight would enter the aperture and be collimated down to the "detector" (there is no detector in the model).

I tried to simulate the sun here by knowing that the ratio of the diameter to the distance (.0093 = diamter:distance) from Earth is about .0093. So at .1 meters away the size of the sun would be 930 microns.
Now using RayViz a package within Solidworks I made a disk, which is the "sun" here and I tried plotting the rays from the surface of this disk, and well doesn't look to great! Here I have a lambertian surface meaning the rays leave at all angles of the disk. I don't know how to only focus the rays within instruments domain but nonetheless I think I am doing something wrong, not with the software but my thinking...The suns light is diffused and focused more than a lambertian surface...
Raytrace.PNG


So, how would one simulate the sun, should it be a point source?
Cheers.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Tone L said:
should it be a point source
No. You even calculated the angle !
And it should be at practically infinity, not at a few decimeter
 
BvU said:
No. You even calculated the angle !
And it should be at practically infinity, not at a few decimeter
Ha! True, I may have been rambling at that point.

However, the sun in this model is scaled. As I mentioned before,
.0093 = diameter of the sun / distance to the sun from Earth. Therefore, at 1 decimeter, the radius should be 930 microns :)
 
Tone L said:
However, the sun in this model is scaled. As I mentioned before,
.0093 = diameter of the sun / distance to the sun from Earth. Therefore, at 1 decimeter, the radius should be 930 microns :)

That's not how it works. Rays from the sun come in almost parallel.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
16K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
14K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
19K