Membrane Theory: Questions & Ideas Explored

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    Membrane Theory
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts related to black holes, their properties, and the implications of their interactions, particularly in the context of spacetime and theoretical ideas about a "membrane." Participants explore questions about black hole behavior, gravitational effects, and speculative ideas regarding spacetime anomalies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why energy plumes are observed from black holes if nothing can escape them.
  • Another participant asserts that black holes do rotate and that this rotation affects the spacetime fabric, referencing the frame dragging effect.
  • There is a discussion about whether merging black holes would result in one being "fed" from the other or if they would simply combine.
  • Speculation arises about the potential for gravitational waves to be produced by inspiraling black holes.
  • One participant proposes that the warping of spacetime between two black holes could create anomalies, questioning the meaning of "thinned fabric of spacetime."
  • Another participant challenges the metaphor of spacetime as a fabric and denies the existence of a "membrane," suggesting that the physics involved does not support such concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of spacetime and the existence of a "membrane." While some agree on certain properties of black holes, such as their rotation and the effects of their gravitational fields, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the metaphysical implications and the validity of certain metaphors.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of terms like "membrane" and "fabric of reality," which are not universally accepted among participants. Additionally, the implications of black hole mergers and their effects on spacetime are not fully explored or agreed upon.

Grimstone
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Hello. I want to start off with a simple into. I have not been to any of the classes you have. I can not go to the classes you have. and I find it odd, that when I can I strive to understand the things you all talk about. but the equations and formula's you use are Greek to me. so please, keep in mind that I am a simple man. Ether help me or don't, but please do not burn me at the stake.

I have questions that if I am to understand the concepts Mr Hawkins is talking about, I need to fill in some of the pieces.

In relation to black holes.
"nothing can escape" yet when "feeding" there are notable beams of energy from top and bottom. the beams are of gamma and other forms of energy.
1. If nothing can escape, why are the plumes there?

2. Do black holes rotate? or is it just the visual effect that man made up?

3. If a black hole does rotate, would not that have an effect on the space time fabric. (beyond the basic mass / warping of the space time)

4. I have no doubt that it has happened, it is happening now, and will happen again.
when two stars come with in a gravitational pull of each other one or the other spits/ejects/is drawn from mass from it to the other star, it is "eaten" so to speak.
When two black holes come with in reach,

A. would one of them be "fed" from? (presuming one is higher mass) or would they just combine?

B. would they spiral around until they collide? I would presume that the spiral effect would cause temporal waves as a body warps time and space.

I have further questions, but wish to see if i get a response of if I'm just ignored.
I have an idea that could allow us to puncture the membrane.
 
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Hi Grimstone,

Ether help me or don't, but please do not burn me at the stake.
if you seek help, you will find it here. If you want to https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=17355", you'll have to go elsewhere.

1. If nothing can escape, why are the plumes there?
They originate from outside the BH.
2. Do black holes rotate? or is it just the visual effect that man made up?
They do.
3. If a black hole does rotate, would not that have an effect on the space time fabric.
Yes. There is an effect called frame dragging or Lense-Thirring effect. Like space being dragged along by the rotating body. It seems to be important for jet formation.
A. would one of them be "fed" from? (presuming one is higher mass) or would they just combine?
They would combine. You can't dissolve a BH.
B. would they spiral around until they collide? I would presume that the spiral effect would cause temporal waves as a body warps time and space.
Yes. Inspiraling BHs should be a major source for gravity waves.
I have an idea that could allow us to puncture the membrane.
I see.
 
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Thank you Ich.

Gravity well that warp space time.

other than bending light so that we see the star behind the sun during a eclipse.
what if any is the other effects?

Is there a physical effect upon the space its self?

if this is a BIG IF. if you could look between two black holes, whose gravitational fields was warping the space time fields between them (I'm aware of the gravitational shear and massive gravity well.) wouldn't you find a point of area where the space time fabric is ripped or thinned enough to create an anomaly?

it would seem to me that when the fabric of reality is pulled twisted and warped, that the membrane would have to be a weakness in it.
or have I watched to much star trek? (grin)
 
wouldn't you find a point of area where the space time fabric is ripped or thinned enough to create an anomaly?
Not sure such metaphors as "thinned fabric of spacetime" bear any meaning. Anyway, a black hole merger is certainly one of the most violent events in the universe. That doesn't mean that spacetime curvature outside the event horizons is critical. Physics as we know it is far from breaking down there.

it would seem to me that when the fabric of reality is pulled twisted and warped, that the membrane would have to be a weakness in it.
There is no membrane. Neither is there a physical entity that I can identify with "fabric of reality".
or have I watched to much star trek?
Actually, I don't think is possible to watch too much Star Trek.
Still, I don't see where your ideas meet reality.
Maybe https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=391752" is about something similar.
 
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