Mentor Away: Little or No Internet Access Until Monday

[rewebster]

There are SO many variations of coloring in each species (young, mottling, molting, male, female, and just plain variations) that you have to look at some of the 'main' patterns.

If an alien saw Astronuc first, and then saw me, the alien would think that 'I' (me) was a mutation--(OK, Evo, there's an opening---go for it)

 

[Evo]

There are SO many variations of coloring in each species (young, mottling, molting, male, female, and just plain variations) that you have to look at some of the 'main' patterns.

Patterns don't match.

Darn, I wish I had photoshop, I'd show you what he looked like. Maybe then someone could regonize him.

 

[Moonbear]

Could it be some sort of kite?

This is just one species of kite, but trying to figure out if it's even close to the right head/beak shape to consider looking into more species of kites.

Or, look at the last photo on this page, and see if it could be a Swainson's Hawk.
http://staff.jccc.edu/dseibel/birds/SWHA.htm

Most of the photos make the bird look brown, but the last one looks grayish. The color might be just such that it appears more gray or more brown depending on the lighting at the time you see it. It has the stripe of white running up the neck and over the beak that you seem to be describing.

And more info on the Swainson's Hawk:
http://www.peregrinefund.org/explore_raptors/hawks/swainson.html

It seems there are two morphs of it, a light and a dark one. The lighter one will have whiter undersides, while the dark one looks more mottled brown mixed with white underneath.

 

[Evo]

Or, look at the last photo on this page, and see if it could be a Swainson's Hawk.
http://staff.jccc.edu/dseibel/birds/SWHA.htm

The last picture shows his legs. I had been looking at the swainson's hawk also, the face is wrong though. Perhaps we could cut and paste a bird together? You know if that bird was in my yard it has to be a mutant. I even tried www.whatbird.com

 

[Astronuc]

It's no where near a goshawk, look at the pictures and read the descriptions! Where does my description sound anything like a goshawk?

Well - charcoal grey on top, white underneath, and the legs, the size. It could be a young adult or an older one, or its winter plummage.

The grey and white, particularly on the face could match the pictures from the Peregrine fund cited by Moonbear - http://www.peregrinefund.org/Explore_Raptors/hawks/ngoshawk.html

The last picture shows his legs.

And the Goshawk has similar legs.

But I'll take one's word for it.

Sorry to seem snippy, . . . .

Not at all. I've met snippy, and you don't seem snippy.

Cooper's and Swainson's are slightly smaller hawks, usually less than 2 ft.

Kite's and falcons are smaller yet.

 

[Evo]

The top 3 reasons my bird is not a goshawk

The goshawk is 19 to 27 inches long with the females larger than the males. Adults are uniformly slate gray on the back and light gray on the belly. A black band reaches from the eyes to behind the head. The eyes are a distinctive red color.

1) his belly was snow white

2) no black band on the head

3) his eyes were yellow

 

[Astronuc]

1) his belly was snow white

2) no black band on the head

3) his eyes were yellow

OK but looking at the picture on peregrine fund site, the top picture shows a snow white belly (or pretty close) and the juvenile doesn't have a black bank, but it does have yellow eyes, so it could be a juvenile who is no longer brown, but has developed the black band or red eyes yet.

And then there are variations in the species as well as seasonal variations. If the hawk you saw was 24+ inches, that does limit the number of species to the largest.


I have a book about birds of prey at home. I'll check to see if there is something that better fits the description.

 

[Moonbear]

The juvenile goshawk doesn't have red eyes. Given the time of year, it is really likely that you could have seen a bird that has molted most, but not all, of its juvenile plumage, so doesn't match any photos or decriptions quite right because it really is halfway between juvenile and adult colorations. The goshawk is one of the few raptors of that size with a range into Kansas.

I don't know about the legs, they looked pretty "fuzzy" to me in the photos I was looking at, especially compared to the other species I looked at. The juveniles all look whiter and puffier, so again, that could be consistent with retaining some of the juvenile feathers at this time of year. Or, as Astronuc pointed out, maybe it's a winter plumage rather than a summer plumage. I haven't found anything about seasonal variations in that particular species. Some of the other species I looked up have very distinctive plumage changes from summer to winter, so if most of the birders posting photos online are out on nice summer days, they may not be showing any photos of winter plumage.

What about the general shape of the head? Which is closer, the goshawk or the Swainson's hawk? This might at least help improve our searching. The two have very distinctively different shapes to them (the goshawk appears almost to have a crest on top of its head, while the Swainson's hawk is very sleek and rounded).

 

[rewebster]

My bet is that it was a red-tailed or Cooper's hawk. Every variation is present in one of more of the photos of them, just not all at the same time (same individual animal). They can go from almost black to rust to just gray, and white--plus all the various markings mentioned--and from a full colored chest to white.


favorite photos from this one site (great photos---most are red tails):

(bird says: "thanks--that itch has been driving me crazy")


http://urbanhawks.blogs.com/urban_hawks/other_redtailed_hawks/index.html

___________________________

evo--did you get rid of the bugs?

 

[Evo]

This is a juvenile goshawk. My bird doesn't have the features of either an adult or juvenile goshawk. Next person that suggests a goshawk gets banned.

 

[Astronuc]

I was thinking between adult or juvenile, i.e. 2 nd yr, before the adult plummage develops. Then there is the matter of sexual dimorphism which adds to possible variations.

On the other hand, the red-tailed is the most common hawk, is about the right size, and has many variations. But all white underneath and grey on top is a stretch.

Now the Gyrfalcon has a white variation, but they tend to be further north in Canada, and are more suited to cliff areas.

I checked my National Audubon Society Pocket Guide - North American Birds of Prey, and none of the large hawks have all white underneath and grey on top, and only the unmentionable species is closest to that description.

Can Kurdt sell me one of his GOOBF cards?

 

[Moonbear]

Don't worry, Astronuc, she can't ban me, so I can always sneak you back in through the kitchen if she bans you (you'll have to put a hair net on that beard though ).

 

[turbo]

Evo, you really need to get images if you want IDs. I personally don't think that a white-phase hawk or a juvenile is a stretch. One day, my buddy and I (the chief of the Maine Warden Service) were returning from a dump run, and we saw a big bird in the road. I corralled and protected the bird while he ran home and got some heavy leather gloves so I could trap the hawk's wings against its body and lug the bird back into the woods without getting my hands chewed up. The bird was a fledgling broad-winged hawk and though it did not look exactly like its parents, it was probably larger and more massive than them, since it had spent all of its life in the nest getting bulked up by the parents. Raptors have individual variations and they also have seasonal variations and age-related variations.

Edit: Goshawk, goshawk, goshawk! Save me, Moonie!

 

[Moonbear]

Edit: Goshawk, goshawk, goshawk! Save me, Moonie!

Hmm...I think I'm going to need to implement a toll at the kitchen door. A jar of habanero sauce should be a sufficient price for re-entry.

 

[rewebster]

you're a brave soul there turbo---I was going to do that but I think Evo got's one of her eyes on me already (like I'm one of the biting bugs on her arm and she's ready to swat)

 

[turbo]

Hmm...I think I'm going to need to implement a toll at the kitchen door. A jar of habanero sauce should be a sufficient price for re-entry.

Maybe I can do something better. What would you say to pepper chunks dipped in chocolate? That ought to make me pretty much bulletproof on this forum! Take your time...

 

[turbo]

you're a brave soul there turbo---I was going to do that but I think Evo got's one of her eyes on me already (like I'm one of the biting bugs on her arm and she's ready to swat)

Do not taunt the Evo, especially when the Evo is a little "tweaked up". "It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again". Not suggesting that she is harsh or anything.

 

[Moonbear]

Maybe I can do something better. What would you say to pepper chunks dipped in chocolate? That ought to make me pretty much bulletproof on this forum! Take your time...

How about the pepper chunks AND the chocolate, and I can dip them myself?

 

[rewebster]

Do not taunt the Evo, especially when the Evo is a little "tweaked up". "It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again". Not suggesting that she is harsh or anything.

oh-oh---and I have nothing (nada) to offer (like food) either!---

 

[Astronuc]

oh-oh---and I have nothing (nada) to offer (like food) either!---

You don't have an emergency stash of chocolate?!

You better do a quick search of GD and figure out the preferred chocolate.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Do not taunt the Evo, especially when the Evo is a little "tweaked up". "It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again". Not suggesting that she is harsh or anything.

Quid pro quo, Clarice. Quid pro quo.

 

[Astronuc]

Don't worry, Astronuc, she can't ban me, so I can always sneak you back in through the kitchen if she bans you (you'll have to put a hair net on that beard though ).

Thanks, Moonbear.

I guess I should have prefaced my post with a comment that I'm not try to ruffle her feathers ( ), well at least not deliberately.

I share the frustration in not finding suitable pictures of birds - and I can't remember the name/site of the local group which has an on-line gallery of bird pictures. Arggghhh! I know they have images of birds of prey.

 

[rewebster]

(I would never---ever (email)--myheXart---unless I had part of my brain cut out and served for a snack)---just as a Halloween preparation treat coming up soon

I don't know if it would go over as good as chocolate though

 

[turbo]

Evo, I found your hawk. It's NOT a Goshawk? It was an immature light morph Ferruginous hawk. Look at the 4th pic down.

http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/Infocenter/i3480id.html

 

[Evo]

Evo, I found your hawk. It's NOT a Goshawk? It was an immature light morph Ferruginous hawk. Look at the 4th pic down.

http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/Infocenter/i3480id.html

Possibly, although mine would have to be an odd mutation. Actually, I think it could be a light morph Krider's Red tail.

Red Tails have so many color variations that even experts can't always identify them. Mine had a splendid rust colored tail. I might have spotted a rare mutation due to the solid white bar going up the middle front of the birds face,, according to one sight I found, that I can't find now.

Here's some about them.

Red-tails are large, stocky, broad-winged birds that vary greatly in color. Typical adult birds average 19 to 25 inches (48 to 63.5 cm) in length with wingspans approaching 4.5 feet (1.7 m). There are two color phases, a "normal" or light phase and a dark phase. Many variations exist between the light and dark phases. The red-tailed hawk exhibits more variations in color than any other hawk in North America. Even experts sometimes find it difficult to identify the species. In any color phase, the presence of a red tail, especially a brick-red one, is a good field mark for identification of this species.

http://www.northern.edu/natsource/BIRDS/Redtai1.htm

 

[Astronuc]

My original comment.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1475541&postcount=212

and may I emphasize - "There are variations of this bird."

I hope this doesn't get me on Evo's endangered species list.

 

[Evo]

My original comment.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1475541&postcount=212

and may I emphasize - "There are variations of this bird."

I hope this doesn't get me on Evo's endangered species list.

I thought turbo had brought up the red tail.

If only a red tail has a red tail and it can be so oddly colored and marked as to defy identification, that's got to be it. I didn't realize it was one-of-a-kind. I hope it returns and I can get a picture of it. There are no pictures or descriptions anywhere of a bird with this set of features.

The main reason I had ruled out the red tail is that the head/beak shape is wrong, but perhaps that is also an optional feature?

 

[Astronuc]

I thought turbo had brought up the red tail.

If only a red tail has a red tail and it can be so oddly colored and marked as to defy identification, that's got to be it. I didn't realize it was one-of-a-kind. I hope it returns and I can get a picture of it. There are no pictures or descriptions anywhere of a bird with this set of features.

The main reason I had ruled out the red tail is that the head/beak shape is wrong, but perhaps that is also an optional feature?

It would be great if you could get a picture. They tend to be territorial, and if there are plenty of squirrels and rabbits in the area, they'll hang around.

It was the charcoal grey and white underneath that made me think of Goshawk, and also the size.

There may be slight variations in beak and head shape, but those aren't really options. I think those are features that distinguish buteos (e.g. red-tailed hawk) from accipiters (e.g. goshawk).

Refs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Goshawk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteo

Can you find a picture of what you remember of the head or beak?

If it was 2 ft or more, then perhaps it was a female.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm laughing at Evo's recently changed signature.

 

[Astronuc]

Well, this is migration period and that bird is probably in OK by now on its way to Texas for the winter.

There is a higher probability that it is a buteo, and that could mean more likely a red-tailed or ferruginous hawk, but the grey on top is the complication. In the back of my mind, I've been trying to remember something about cross-breeding among species, which can complicated identity. Some buteos do cross breed, and I found site that does mention that -

Ferrugenous x Redtail Hawks - http://www.shortwingfalconry.co.uk/hawks/ferrutail.asp

One of the few natural Hawk species crosses to occur in the wild, the FerruginousXRedtail is something we have been working on for a number of years.

Here is some more information and pictures -
http://sdakotabirds.com/species/ferruginous_hawk_info.htm
http://sdakotabirds.com/species/red_tailed_hawk_info.htm

For more species - http://sdakotabirds.com/species_main.htm

Some nice pics - http://www.schmoker.org/BirdPics/FEHA.html
http://www.schmoker.org/BirdPics/RTHA.html
Schomaker photographs birds using a Nikon D2X with 200-400 f/4 AF-S VR and 80-200 f/2.8 AF-S VR lenses with TC-14E and TC-17E teleconverters

 

[Evo]

Apparently another very unusual thing is the fact that I was so close to the bird and that due to the drop off to the trees below he wasn't very much above eye level with me. Most of the pictures I've seen suffer from distance and lack a good frontal view of the bird. I could just kick myself for not having a camera around.

 

[Astronuc]

Apparently another very unusual thing is the fact that I was so close to the bird and that due to the drop off to the trees below he wasn't very much above eye level with me. Most of the pictures I've seen suffer from distance and lack a good frontal view of the bird. I could just kick myself for not having a camera around.

Ummm - whatever happened to that rather expensive camera that you were intending to forward to someone overseas? :umm:

 

[Evo]

Ummm - whatever happened to that rather expensive camera that you were intending to forward to someone overseas? :umm:

Still packed in a box in my dining room. I'm assuming it doesn't have batteries, and I only have some D cells.

 

[Astronuc]

I'm laughing at Evo's recently changed signature.

You think she's trying to make a point?

It's NOT a goshawk!

and I guess she's not going to let me forget it.

 

[rewebster]

Still packed in a box in my dining room. I'm assuming it doesn't have batteries, and I only have some D cells.

you need to get your new nest going:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organize

"to endow with capacity for functions of life"

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/organize

 

[Astronuc]

http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1196/hawkonnestwv3.jpg

Description - "completely snow white except for the wings, back and the sides and back of the head, which are charcoal grey." Unfortunately, we cannot see the underside of the tail.


And I think rewebster is looking for a job as Evo's personal assistant.

 

[rewebster]

And I think rewebster is looking for a job as Evo's personal assistant.

funny!---that's one 'job title' that's never been suggested to me---Evo's PA---


(I was thinking that camera would be great for "it's" next appearance)

 

[rewebster]

Six weeks now---We need another update on the move (and unpacking), the arm, back, and a new animal for the upcoming week

 

[Evo]

Still moving at a snail's pace. I actually have one picture up now. No clue where to put anything. I find mysef running in circles looking for things I know I put away, but can't remember where.

I tried moving a small tv yesterday. Mistake. Fortunately I got it back onto the table without dropping it.

I don't have any wood for the fireplace, but I can see pieces down near the creek. I'm considering crawling down there, but will I be able to climb back up and over the rocks carrying wood in my one good arm?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Andre]

Oops, please, don't. Creeks are things in which one can fall into.

 

[Astronuc]

Still moving at a snail's pace. I actually have one picture up now. No clue where to put anything. I find mysef running in circles looking for things I know I put away, but can't remember where.

I tried moving a small tv yesterday. Mistake. Fortunately I got it back onto the table without dropping it.

I don't have any wood for the fireplace, but I can see pieces down near the creek. I'm considering crawling down there, but will I be able to climb back up and over the rocks carrying wood in my one good arm?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

No! Not a good idea! I forbid you! Find someone expendable.

 

[rewebster]

Still moving at a snail's pace. I actually have one picture up now. No clue where to put anything. I find mysef running in circles looking for things I know I put away, but can't remember where.

I tried moving a small tv yesterday. Mistake. Fortunately I got it back onto the table without dropping it.

I don't have any wood for the fireplace, but I can see pieces down near the creek. I'm considering crawling down there, but will I be able to climb back up and over the rocks carrying wood in my one good arm?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Why don't you get one of those "rent-a-husband" for a couple days?



did you get rid of the fleas?

either that, or you were rolling around in the grass and got chiggers--were the bites under the strap/belt/elastic (latex) areas?----they love tight areas--that's where they stop and burrow in

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=chiggers&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

 

[Evo]

No, but I killed a large spider and the bites stopped.

 

[rewebster]

maybe the spider had chiggers and gave them to you

 

[Moonbear]

maybe the spider had chiggers and gave them to you

Great, now we'll have a week of her signature reading, "It's NOT chiggers!"

 

[turbo]

Great, now we'll have a week of her signature reading, "It's NOT chiggers!"

OK, we have to make up a new sig for Evo. I suggest "I'm not having psychosomatic insect bites" or perhaps "I ain't crazy dammit!" Do you have a preference? After watching "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" last night, I don't want to put Evo in the clutches of a nurse Ratched.

 

[Evo]

Maybe it's Morgellon's!

 

[turbo]

AAAAH! If you get colored curly little hairs emerging from scabby sores, you are hereby officially dis-invited from any redneck matchmaking process, and you will certainly not be welcome to visit, even if you can split and stack 3-4 cords of wood a day.

 

[Moonbear]

Evo has cooties! Evo has cooties!

 

[rewebster]

Evo has cooties! Evo has cooties!

are you saying, 'nobody can touch Evo'?


(are those red spots gone yet, evo?---the red chigger bites last about a week or so)