Mentor Away: Little or No Internet Access Until Monday

[Evo]

Probably a red-tailed hawk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-tailed_Hawk

We have a pair of them in our neighborhood. They can get up to 24-26 inches. There are variations of this bird.

I can't find any red tailed hawks that are completely snow white except for the wings, back and the sides and back of the head, which are charcoal grey. I can't find anything like it and I've gone through hundreds of photos.

 

[Astronuc]

I can't find any red tailed hawks that are completely snow white except for the wings, back and the sides and back of the head, which are charcoal grey. I can't find anything like it and I've gone through hundreds of photos.

Any of these?

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Red-tailed_Hawk_dtl.html#description

http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/Infocenter/i3370id.html
Light morph adult:
- Brown head, nape, back, and upperwings
- White chin, throat, breast, and belly
- Dark belly band formed by vertical streaks in band across belly
- White underwings have dark carpal bar on leading edge, dark outer primary tips and a dark trailing edge and are otherwise pale with dark bars on the flight feathers on all but the outermost primaries
- Tail appears brick red above and pink below
- Breast and back pattern vary with geography, with some birds being intermediate between light and dark morphs

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/birds/red-tailed-hawk.html

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Buteo_jamaicensis.html

http://www.hawk-conservancy.org/priors/redtail.shtml

It's hard to find a good picture on-line.

Or perhaps

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5298/redtailedhawknm3.jpg

 

[Evo]

None of those. And the feathers had no stripes. The underside of the tail was a solid rust color

 

[rewebster]

Ferruginous Hawk

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...uggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1

 

[turbo]

Red-tails can appear very white from underneath. They are blocky-built birds, and you might take that into account.

 

[Evo]

I wasn't look at him from underneath, because the trees are already pretty high from where I stand outside my back door, I had a frontal view of him, it wasn't until he flew off that I noticed the rust underside of his tail. None of these hawks are fully white from brow to toe. Remember this bird had a bar of white going up the middle of his face and over the top of his beak. He was there for around 30 minutes and although he was less than 20 feet away, I watched him through binoculars, so I had an excellent close up view of him.

 

[Astronuc]

Ferruginous Hawk

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...uggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1

Could be. They are the same size as a red-tailed.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Ferruginous_Hawk.html

 

[Evo]

Could be. They are the same size as a red-tailed.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Ferruginous_Hawk.html

No, not even close.

 

[Astronuc]

Well the largest hawk is the Northern Goshawk which is mostly white underneath and grey on top.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Northern_Goshawk_dtl.html

Cooper's and Sharp-shinned are smaller than the others mentioned.

On the other hand, your hawk could be a variant of the red-tailed. In the picture I posted, the underneath is shadow, but has a very light whitish color. That hawk was probably more than 500 ft in the air when I took it with max zoom.

 

[Evo]

Damn I wish I'd had a camera, I didn't realize it was impossible to find a picture of one.

 

[rewebster]

http://fwp.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=1052

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Northern+Goshawk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

they all come in different shades (not like penguins) Astronuc may have hit it

 

[Evo]

http://fwp.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=1052

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Northern+Goshawk&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

they all come in different shades (not like penguins) Astronuc may have hit it

No, those aren't even close.

 

[rewebster]

 

[Moonbear]

There seem to be a lot of variants of the red-tailed hawk, and it's a year-round resident of Kansas. Take a look at this link (hope nobody already posted this one...I haven't followed all of them).
http://www.gpnc.org/hawkrt.htm

And the goshawk fits your description, except for the rust tail...but maybe they just don't mention it on this site.
http://www.gpnc.org/goshawk.htm

Another possibility is that it's a juvenile of one of those species that hasn't fully gotten its adult colorings yet, so doesn't quite fit the descriptions.

Edit:
Here's a description of a juvenile goshawk -

Brown above and heavily streaked below. Back with some white or cinnamon streaks and white spots. Tail dark brown with jagged dark bars. Underparts whitish with broad dark brown streaks. Pale eyebrow stripe usually visible on brown head. Eyes yellow.

If it's sort of a "teenager," it might have mostly the markings of the adult on the body, and still be retaining some juvenile features, like the brown bars under the tail, which could look "rust" due to fading.
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Northern_Goshawk_dtl.html

 

[rewebster]

http://library.thinkquest.org/18166/raptor_list.html

 

[Astronuc]

Damn I wish I'd had a camera, I didn't realize it was impossible to find a picture of one.

Well, it's complicated because of all the variations that can occur. I think Moonbear's point about juvenile vs mature adult may be a factor as well.

Charcoal grey on the back sounds like a N. Goshawk though. From the ThinkQuest link provided by rewebster, the description of the N. Goshawk -

The adults are identifiable by their gray and blue body, dark head cap and the white line above the eye. Their eyes are red, and has a black stripe running from the eye to the back of the head. The tail is blue barred black, and the underside is white streaked black and gray. The neck is also white, with some small black markings. Immatures are brown bodied and capped, with white undersides streaked brown.

It may be possible that the hawk is in it's first or second year and in transition from brown to white underneath, with charcoal grey on the dorsal area.

The ferruginous hawk would be brown on the upper side, and red-tails also seem to be mostly brown, at least the one's around our area are.
http://library.thinkquest.org/18166/ferruginous_hawk.html

Be careful with FruitBat because he's probably the size of a jack rabbit and could easily be prey of such a hawk if the hawk was so inclined. I think that would be unusual though.

 

[turbo]

Evo, the osprey fits every bit of your description, except the rust-colored tail. They are impressively large when seen up close, are all white underneath, and have a prominent mask across their eyes.

 

[Evo]

Thanks guys, but those pictures are so far off, that my bird would have to be a mutant. We're talking absolutely snow wite, the legs were heavily feathered like an eagle's, that was the first thing that caught my eye, no spindly legs. There is no brown, no speckling, no bands. The marks and coloring on the head are completely wrong, it was a single bar of white going up his throat to above the beak and extending out to the eyes on the side. Solid charcoal gray everywhere else. It was so striking that I made a pathetic sketch of it while I was watching it, I was also on the computer looking at it through the window trying to find a picture of it. It was HUGE. It was there so long that two squirrels actually charged at it on the branch it was on, but it just looked bored and never moved, I was sure one of those squirrels was going to be lunch.

Turbo, it doesn't match the osprey either. The head was solid charcoal gray except for that white bar going straight up the front of it's face. It really reminded me of an eagle, but the beak was more hawk like.

It's got to come back and I've got to get a camera. I've even considered some sort of buzzard, but the markings and color don't match either. Perhaps it's a heagle (hawk-eagle), or a beagle (buzzard-eagle), or a bawk (buzzard-hawk).

Keep posting pictures, we're bound to find it. Two weeks in Death Valley for the winner!

I wonder if the University here has a an avain expert that would know? Or the wildlife preserve near here, they have a bunch of pictures of wild birds in the area.

 

[Astronuc]

The head was solid charcoal gray except for that white bar going straight up the front of it's face. It really reminded me of an eagle, but the beak was more hawk like.

That sounds like the Goshawk. It would be great if you could get a picture.

With the squirrels and rabbits around, he or she will likely stick around.


As for a resource try - http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/zimgui.html

or somebody here - http://www2.ku.edu/%7Eeeb/

or contact the local chapter of the Audubon Society - http://www.burroughs.org (?)

 

[Evo]

That sounds like the Goshawk. It would be great if you could get a picture.

With the squirrels and rabbits around, he or she will likely stick around.


As for a resource try - http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/zimgui.html

or somebody here - http://www2.ku.edu/~eeb/

or contact the local chapter of the Audubon Society - http://www.burroughs.org (?)

It's no where near a goshawk, look at the pictures and read the descriptions! Where does my description sound anything like a goshawk?

Sorry to seem snippy, but goshawks don't look anything like it. The end. Of goshawks.

 

[rewebster]

There are SO many variations of coloring in each species (young, mottling, molting, male, female, and just plain variations) that you have to look at some of the 'main' patterns.

If an alien saw Astronuc first, and then saw me, the alien would think that 'I' (me) was a mutation--(OK, Evo, there's an opening---go for it)

 

[Evo]

There are SO many variations of coloring in each species (young, mottling, molting, male, female, and just plain variations) that you have to look at some of the 'main' patterns.

Patterns don't match.

Darn, I wish I had photoshop, I'd show you what he looked like. Maybe then someone could regonize him.

 

[Moonbear]

Could it be some sort of kite?

This is just one species of kite, but trying to figure out if it's even close to the right head/beak shape to consider looking into more species of kites.

Or, look at the last photo on this page, and see if it could be a Swainson's Hawk.
http://staff.jccc.edu/dseibel/birds/SWHA.htm

Most of the photos make the bird look brown, but the last one looks grayish. The color might be just such that it appears more gray or more brown depending on the lighting at the time you see it. It has the stripe of white running up the neck and over the beak that you seem to be describing.

And more info on the Swainson's Hawk:
http://www.peregrinefund.org/explore_raptors/hawks/swainson.html

It seems there are two morphs of it, a light and a dark one. The lighter one will have whiter undersides, while the dark one looks more mottled brown mixed with white underneath.

 

[Evo]

Or, look at the last photo on this page, and see if it could be a Swainson's Hawk.
http://staff.jccc.edu/dseibel/birds/SWHA.htm

The last picture shows his legs. I had been looking at the swainson's hawk also, the face is wrong though. Perhaps we could cut and paste a bird together? You know if that bird was in my yard it has to be a mutant. I even tried www.whatbird.com

 

[Astronuc]

It's no where near a goshawk, look at the pictures and read the descriptions! Where does my description sound anything like a goshawk?

Well - charcoal grey on top, white underneath, and the legs, the size. It could be a young adult or an older one, or its winter plummage.

The grey and white, particularly on the face could match the pictures from the Peregrine fund cited by Moonbear - http://www.peregrinefund.org/Explore_Raptors/hawks/ngoshawk.html

The last picture shows his legs.

And the Goshawk has similar legs.

But I'll take one's word for it.

Sorry to seem snippy, . . . .

Not at all. I've met snippy, and you don't seem snippy.

Cooper's and Swainson's are slightly smaller hawks, usually less than 2 ft.

Kite's and falcons are smaller yet.

 

[Evo]

The top 3 reasons my bird is not a goshawk

The goshawk is 19 to 27 inches long with the females larger than the males. Adults are uniformly slate gray on the back and light gray on the belly. A black band reaches from the eyes to behind the head. The eyes are a distinctive red color.

1) his belly was snow white

2) no black band on the head

3) his eyes were yellow

 

[Astronuc]

1) his belly was snow white

2) no black band on the head

3) his eyes were yellow

OK but looking at the picture on peregrine fund site, the top picture shows a snow white belly (or pretty close) and the juvenile doesn't have a black bank, but it does have yellow eyes, so it could be a juvenile who is no longer brown, but has developed the black band or red eyes yet.

And then there are variations in the species as well as seasonal variations. If the hawk you saw was 24+ inches, that does limit the number of species to the largest.


I have a book about birds of prey at home. I'll check to see if there is something that better fits the description.

 

[Moonbear]

The juvenile goshawk doesn't have red eyes. Given the time of year, it is really likely that you could have seen a bird that has molted most, but not all, of its juvenile plumage, so doesn't match any photos or decriptions quite right because it really is halfway between juvenile and adult colorations. The goshawk is one of the few raptors of that size with a range into Kansas.

I don't know about the legs, they looked pretty "fuzzy" to me in the photos I was looking at, especially compared to the other species I looked at. The juveniles all look whiter and puffier, so again, that could be consistent with retaining some of the juvenile feathers at this time of year. Or, as Astronuc pointed out, maybe it's a winter plumage rather than a summer plumage. I haven't found anything about seasonal variations in that particular species. Some of the other species I looked up have very distinctive plumage changes from summer to winter, so if most of the birders posting photos online are out on nice summer days, they may not be showing any photos of winter plumage.

What about the general shape of the head? Which is closer, the goshawk or the Swainson's hawk? This might at least help improve our searching. The two have very distinctively different shapes to them (the goshawk appears almost to have a crest on top of its head, while the Swainson's hawk is very sleek and rounded).

 

[rewebster]

My bet is that it was a red-tailed or Cooper's hawk. Every variation is present in one of more of the photos of them, just not all at the same time (same individual animal). They can go from almost black to rust to just gray, and white--plus all the various markings mentioned--and from a full colored chest to white.


favorite photos from this one site (great photos---most are red tails):

(bird says: "thanks--that itch has been driving me crazy")


http://urbanhawks.blogs.com/urban_hawks/other_redtailed_hawks/index.html

___________________________

evo--did you get rid of the bugs?

 

[Evo]

This is a juvenile goshawk. My bird doesn't have the features of either an adult or juvenile goshawk. Next person that suggests a goshawk gets banned.