Mercury's orbit according to Classical VS Modern Physics

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on analyzing Mercury's orbit through the lens of Newtonian physics using Newton and Kepler's equations, while comparing it to modern physics predictions. The student aims to calculate orbital parameters such as the semi-latus rectum using the equation L_e = \frac{L_P^2}{Gm_Sm_P^2}, where L_e is the semi-latus rectum, L_P is the angular momentum, G is the gravitational constant, and m_S and m_P are the masses of the Sun and Mercury, respectively. The discussion highlights the importance of considering the gravitational influences of other planets and the need for epoch-specific data to accurately compare Newtonian and relativistic predictions. The HORIZONS database is suggested as a resource for obtaining necessary data.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Newton's laws of motion and gravitation
  • Familiarity with Kepler's laws of planetary motion
  • Knowledge of basic orbital mechanics and parameters
  • Ability to use mathematical equations in physics, particularly polar equations
NEXT STEPS
  • Research how to obtain orbital parameters from the HORIZONS database
  • Study the effects of gravitational interactions among multiple bodies in celestial mechanics
  • Learn about the concept of epoch in orbital mechanics and its significance in predictions
  • Explore the differences between Newtonian and relativistic predictions of planetary orbits
USEFUL FOR

High school students, amateur astronomers, and physics enthusiasts interested in the comparison of classical and modern physics in celestial mechanics, particularly regarding planetary orbits.

Daniel Sarioglu
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hello,
I'm a high-school student and I was assigned to do this kind of a paper as a senior (one of the requirements of graduating is a short monograph on a subject of interest.)
My topic includes an analysis of Mercury's orbit using Newton and Kepler's equations and comparing the predicted trajectory vs the correct one. Just to clarify, my intentions are not to delve into relativity to predict the "correct trajectory," but to compare my calculations according to Newtonian Physics and the orbital parameters (i.e major axis, minor axis, distance between foci of ellipse, etc...) found in online sources like NASA or sth -which I suppose corresponds to the trajectory described by relativity.
My problem lies in not knowing which variables are dependent of modern "non Newtonian" conceptions and therefore would have to find myself. For example, deriving from the inverse square law and the polar equation for an ellipse, I got the following:

<br /> \begin{equation*} <br /> L_e = \frac{L_P^2}{Gm_Sm_P^2} <br /> \end{equation*}<br />

Being ##L_e## the semi latus rectum of the elipse, ##L_P##, the angular momentum of the planet, ##G## the gravitational constant, and ##m_S## and ##m_P## the masses of the Sun and the planet correspondingly.

I'm not too sure whether I can get a "Newtonian" measurement if I were to pluck in the data found online for the masses and the angular momentum into the equation. Should I instead calculate the masses and the angular velocity myself? If so, how would one proceed?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
This is difficult.

In Newtonian mechanics, if you have two point-masses orbiting each other you get an ellipse. In general relativity, you do not. But the solar system is not a set of two point-masses. The point of Mercury's perihelion rotates around the Sun by 5.75 arcseconds per year, this corresponds to one full rotation every 220,000 years - a very small effect. And more than 90% of this comes from the gravitational attraction from other planets - which is present in Newtonian mechanics as well.

What NASA and so on are typically publishing is "if the planet would follow a perfect Newtonian ellipse based on its position and speed at time X, how would these parameters look like?" This time is called the epoch. If you want to see an effect of general relativity, you'll need the orbital parameters for different epochs to compare them.
 
Thanks,
Another couple of questions:
Where could I get the data corresponding to relativity's "epoch" as you say?
And should I assume the planet is orbiting the Sun's mass without the Sun being slightly affected by the gravitational pull form the rest of the solar system, could the orbit predicted by Newton and Relativity be differentiated or does the difference lie in the fact that the Sun is also slightly moving?
 
Daniel Sarioglu said:
Where could I get the data corresponding to relativity's "epoch" as you say?
In databases such as HORIZONS.
Daniel Sarioglu said:
And should I assume the planet is orbiting the Sun's mass without the Sun being slightly affected by the gravitational pull form the rest of the solar system, could the orbit predicted by Newton and Relativity be differentiated or does the difference lie in the fact that the Sun is also slightly moving?
Neglecting the motion of the Sun provides a reasonable estimate in some cases (e.g. analytic estimates for the perihelion precession), but if you want accurate predictions for the orbits you'll probably have to take it into account.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
7K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
8K