Meson Compostions: Difference Between π0 and η

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences in the quark compositions of the π0 and η mesons, specifically focusing on the presence of a negative sign in the π0 composition and a positive sign in the η composition. Participants explore the implications of these differences in the context of flavor symmetry and isospin states.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the composition of the π0 is (uu_bar - dd_bar)/√2, while the η meson is (uu_bar + dd_bar)/√2, questioning the reason for the differing signs.
  • Another participant explains that π and η are different linear combinations of states in flavor space.
  • A further reply emphasizes that the π0 is part of an isospin triplet, while the η is an isospin singlet, suggesting that this distinction contributes to the sign difference.
  • One participant introduces the flavor symmetric model, discussing how the combinations of quarks lead to the formation of triplets and singlets, and notes that the actual η states are mixtures predicted by flavor SU(3) symmetry.
  • Another participant raises a question about the s \bar{s} component of the η, detailing the quark content of the SU(3) octet and singlet states, and how these relate to the composition of the mesons.
  • There is a reiteration of the importance of the SU(2) and SU(3) symmetry in determining the quark compositions and the resulting signs in the meson states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of flavor symmetry and the specific quark compositions, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus on the interpretation of the signs in the meson compositions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes complex mathematical representations and assumptions related to flavor symmetry and quark interactions, which may not be fully resolved or agreed upon by all participants.

Shen712
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The composition of the π0 is (uu_bar - dd_bar/√2; while the composition of the η meson is (uu_bar + dd_bar)/√2. Why is there a - sign in π0 while is there a + sign in η? How are the signs determined?
By the way, can I type Latex symbols on this site? I tried to type the anti up quark by typing \overline{u}, but it did not show what I wanted. How should I type it?
 
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Shen712 said:
By the way, can I type Latex symbols on this site? I tried to type the anti up quark by typing \overline{u}, but it did not show what I wanted. How should I type it?
Yes, LaTeX is supported here. See our tutorial here -- https://www.physicsforums.com/help/latexhelp/.
 
Because ##\pi## and ##\eta## are different linear combinations of states in flavour space.
 
Orodruin said:
Because ##\pi## and ##\eta## are different linear combinations of states in flavour space.
Can you explain more clearly? How are the linear compositions different? And how does one lead to a - sign while the other lead to a + sign?
 
They are in different flavour states. It is that simple. If you have two vectors x and y, x+y is a different linear combination than x-y. In this case, one (##\pi_0##) is part of an isospin triplet and the other (##\eta##) is an isospin singlet.
 
In the flavor symmetric model, aka the down and up quarks are in an SU(2) doublet (aka 2-dimensional representation), which is a good approximate symmetry as long as the quarks are massless m_u , m_d \approx 0, when you go to build mesons by combining the doublet with the anti-doublet you have:
\textbf{2} \otimes \bar{\textbf{2}} = \textbf{3} \oplus \textbf{1}
The (iso)triplet you get contains the pions (well with some combinations for the charged pions*): \pi^{\pm} , \pi^0 since it's built from the combination : \bar{q} \sigma^i q with sigma the pauli matrices, while the (iso)singlet is the \eta meson and it's constructed from the identity matrix (not pauli-matrices): \bar{q} \textbf{1} q. The isotriplet is symmetric under the exchange u\leftrightarrow d while the isosinglet is antisymmetric (similar to spin-1/2 from quantum mechanincs).
This is a simplified explanation (yet it works for your case). The actual (physical) \eta states are produced as a mixture of states. These states are predicted by flavor SU(3) symmetry (adding strange quarks in, since they are also quite light), they are in an iso-octet and iso-singlet: \textbf{3} \otimes \bar{\textbf{3}} = \textbf{8} \oplus \textbf{1}. Because the u,d,s quarks are not exactly massless, the SU(3) symmetry is not exact and mixings happen.

*In fact I wrote the charged pions immediately, but the quark composition you get out of this procedure is for \textbf{3}:
\phi^1 = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} (u\bar{d} + \bar{u} d) ,~~\phi^2= \frac{i}{\sqrt{2}} (u\bar{d} - \bar{u}d) ,~~\phi^3= \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} (u\bar{u} - d \bar{d} )
The charged pions come from combining \phi^{1,2} ... in a similar manner as you built the ladder operators in spin-1/2 case... \pi^\pm = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} ( \phi^1 \mp i \phi^2)
 
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Shen712 said:
The composition of the π0 is (uu_bar - dd_bar/√2; while the composition of the η meson is (uu_bar + dd_bar)/√2. Why is there a - sign in π0 while is there a + sign in η? How are the signs determined?
By the way, can I type Latex symbols on this site? I tried to type the anti up quark by typing \overline{u}, but it did not show what I wanted. How should I type it?
Where is the s \bar{s} component of your \eta? Scalar mesons (i.e., the J^{P} = 0^{-} representation of the Lorentz group) contain 2 \eta-particles: the T = S = 0 member of the SU(3) octet, usually denoted by \eta_{8} and having the quarks content \eta_{8} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{6}} (u \bar{u} + d \bar{d} - 2 s \bar{s}) , and there is the SU(3) singlet (invariant) state \eta_{1} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} \sum_{i = u,d,s} q^{i} \ \bar{q}_{i} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{3}} (u \bar{u} + d \bar{d} + s \bar{s}) \ . The exact quark content follows from the SU(3) decomposition 3 \otimes \bar{3} = 8 \oplus 1, which you can represent as follow q^{i} \bar{q}_{j} = \left( q^{i} \bar{q}_{j} - \frac{1}{3} \delta^{i}_{j} \sum_{k = u,d,s} q^{k} \bar{q}_{k}\right) + \frac{1}{3} \delta^{i}_{j} \sum_{k} q^{k}\bar{q}_{k} \ . The first term on the right hand side is the 3 \times 3 traceless hermitian mesons matrix \{8\}^{i}_{j} = q^{i} \bar{q}_{j} - \frac{1}{3} \delta^{i}_{j} \sum_{k = u,d,s} q^{k} \bar{q}_{k} \ . For the 0^{-} (i.e., scalar) mesons, the off-diagonal matrix elements are easily recognised, for example \{8\}^{2}_{3} = d \bar{s} = K^{0} \ , \{8\}^{3}_{1} = s \bar{u} = K^{-} and the two charged pions \{8\}^{1}_{2} = u \bar{d} = \pi^{+} \ , \{8\}^{2}_{1} = d \bar{u} = \pi^{-}. Now, before considering the diagonal elements of the SU(3) meson matrix \{8\}^{i}_{j}, and in order to settle the sign issue for \pi^{0}, let us repeat the same thing for the iso-spin group SU(2). That is decomposing the tensor product 2 \otimes 2 = 3 \oplus 1 by subtracting the SU(2)-invariant trace. So, in terms of quarks q^{m} \bar{q}_{n} = \left( q^{m} \bar{q}_{n} - \frac{1}{2} \delta^{m}_{n} \sum_{l = u,d} q^{l}\bar{q}_{l} \right) + \frac{1}{2} \delta^{m}_{n} \sum_{l = u,d} q^{l} \bar{q}_{l} \ . From this we identify the triplet (i.e., iso-spin one) pion states which are contained in the matrix \{3\}^{m}_{n}:\pi^{+} = |1 , +1\rangle = \{3\}^{1}_{2} = u \bar{d} \ ,\pi^{0} = |1 , 0 \rangle = \sqrt{2} \{3\}^{1}_{1} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} (u \bar{u} - d \bar{d}) \ ,\pi^{-} = |1 , -1 \rangle = \{3\}^{2}_{1} = d \bar{u} \ . Now, you know the exact form of \pi^{0} state, go back to consider the diagonal elements of the SU(3) matrix \{8\}^{i}_{j}: \{8\}^{1}_{1} = u \bar{u} - \frac{1}{3} \sum_{j = u,d,s} q^{j}\bar{q}_{j} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \pi^{0} + \frac{1}{6} \left( u \bar{u} + d \bar{d} - 2 s \bar{s} \right) \ , \{8\}^{2}_{2} = - \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}} \pi^{0} + \frac{1}{6} \left( u \bar{u} + d \bar{d} - 2 s \bar{s} \right) \ ,\{8\}^{3}_{3} = - \frac{2}{6} \left( u \bar{u} + d \bar{d} - 2 s \bar{s}\right) \ . This led to the identification of \eta_{8} with the state \eta_{8} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{6}} \left( u \bar{u} + d \bar{d} - 2 s \bar{s}\right) \ .
 

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