Metric and Norms: Finding a Violation of the Triangle Inequality

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of metrics and norms, specifically focusing on the triangle inequality in the context of a problem referenced from a Wikipedia article. The original poster is attempting to find a counter-example that violates the triangle inequality using 2-dimensional vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster considers simplifying the problem to 2-dimensional vectors and has explored various combinations of vectors, norms, and metrics without success. Participants suggest attempting to prove the triangle inequality instead of finding a counter-example, with some questioning the validity of the metric based on a retraction from Wikipedia.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering guidance on alternative approaches such as attempting to prove the triangle inequality. There is a recognition of the challenges faced by the original poster, and multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a retraction from Wikipedia regarding the metric in question, which adds complexity to the discussion. The original poster expresses frustration over the lack of viable examples and the potential need for an unusual norm.

SimbaTheLion
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Homework Statement



The Wikipedia part of question 5 here:

http://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/site2002/Teaching/IB/MetricTopologicalSpaces/2007-2008/Examples1.pdf

Homework Equations



All relevant information is given in the question above.

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm trying to simplify the problem by considering only 2-dimensional vectors rather than n-dimensional ones. But I've considered dozens of combinations of vectors, norms and metrics, none of which are working. I think that what Wikipedia says is correct in that d-tilde(x, y) = 0 <=> x = y, and d-tilde(x, y) = d-tilde(y, x), so the problem lies in the triangle inequality being violated I presume. But after two days of trying so many things out (and killing lots of trees for paper :P ) I still haven't come up with a single counter-example.

Can someone please tell me which vector/norm/metric combination I should be considering?

Thanks a lot!
 
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My rule of thumb. If wikipedia says it's a metric, it probably is. Have you considered proving it doesn't violate the triangle inequality? Usually if you try and fail it at least gives you an idea of why it doesn't satisfy the triangle inequality (based on where you get stuck)
 
Office_Shredder said:
My rule of thumb. If wikipedia says it's a metric, it probably is. Have you considered proving it doesn't violate the triangle inequality? Usually if you try and fail it at least gives you an idea of why it doesn't satisfy the triangle inequality (based on where you get stuck)

According to the footnote, wikipedia has retracted the statement. Now what do you say? Just a warning.
 
Dick said:
According to the footnote, wikipedia has retracted the statement. Now what do you say? Just a warning.

I would still stand by my statement. If you can't come up with a counterexample, try to start a proof to demonstrate it's true and see where you get stuck. If the statement is false you usually get stuck at the point where the statement ends up being false, so you can see what kind of condition is necessary for the metric space you want to look at
 
Office_Shredder said:
If you can't come up with a counterexample, try to start a proof to demonstrate it's true and see where you get stuck.

I tried this, and I think the metrics won't make any difference. I think the norm has to be unusual. I have an idea, but I haven't finished.
 

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