Metric tensor at the earth surface

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the Ricci tensor and Ricci scalar in the context of space-time curvature at the Earth's surface, particularly using the Schwarzschild metric. Participants explore the implications of using this metric, the nature of curvature in vacuum regions, and the differences between Ricci and Weyl curvature.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to find the Ricci tensor and scalar for the Earth's surface using the Schwarzschild metric, noting that they are zero.
  • Another participant clarifies that the Schwarzschild metric is a vacuum solution, which explains why the Ricci tensor and scalar vanish, and is valid for the exterior of the Earth.
  • A participant mentions the Kretschmann scalar as being non-zero, specifically M²/r⁶.
  • Another suggests looking at the Weyl curvature tensor, which describes curvature in vacuum regions but is difficult to compute by hand.
  • One participant asserts that the mass of the Earth should curve the surrounding space, questioning why the Ricci tensor is zero.
  • A response indicates that outside the Earth, the Ricci tensor is zero due to the vacuum, while it is non-zero inside, proposing a model of the Earth as a constant density, non-rotating sphere with Schwarzschild's interior solution.
  • Another participant reiterates that the curvature produced in the vacuum around the Earth is Weyl curvature, not Ricci curvature.
  • Further discussion emphasizes that different curvature tensors measure different types of curvature, with the Weyl curvature being non-zero in vacuum solutions while the Ricci tensor always vanishes in such cases.
  • One participant notes that the Riemann curvature tensor can vanish only if the manifold is locally isometric to Euclidean space, which is flat.
  • Participants discuss the physical interpretation of Ricci and Weyl curvatures in general relativity through geodesic congruences and their associated kinematical quantities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Ricci tensor being zero in vacuum solutions, with some emphasizing the distinction between Ricci and Weyl curvature. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these curvatures in the context of the Earth's mass and surrounding space.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of the Earth (constant density, non-rotating) and the limitations of using the Schwarzschild metric in different regions (inside vs. outside the Earth). There are unresolved mathematical steps related to the computation of curvature tensors.

tm007
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I want to find the ricci tensor and ricci scalar for the space-time curvature at the Earth surface. Ignoring the moon and the sun. I have used the scwharzschilds metric, but then the ricci tensor and the scalar where equal to zero.
 
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The Schwarzschild metric is a vacuum solution so of course the Ricci tensor and Ricci scalar will vanish. The Schwarzschild metric is valid for the exterior of the Earth, ignoring the Earth's rotation and the presence of the other celestial bodies.
 
The Kretschmann scalar is non-zero M2/r6
 
Another thing you could look at is the Weyl curvature tensor. This specifically describes the type of curvature in vacuum regions in GR. Unfortunately, it is really hard to compute by hand, even for a metric as simple as the Scwharzschild.
 
The mass of the Earth should curve the space surounding the Earth. Why is then the ricci tensor equal to zero.
 
Outside the Earth, there is a vacuum, so Ricci is zero. Inside the Earth, Ricci is non-zero. A somewhat crude model takes the Earth as a constant density, non-rotating sphere. Then, Schwarzschild's interior solution can be used. When [itex]G=c=1[/itex],

[tex] ds^{2}=\left( \frac{3}{2}\sqrt{1-\frac{2M}{R}}-\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{1-\frac{2Mr^{2}}{R^{3}}}\right) ^{2}dt^{2}-\left( 1-\frac{2Mr^{2}}{R^{3}}\right) ^{-1}dr^{2}-r^{2}\left( d\theta ^{2}+\sin ^{2}\theta d\phi ^{2}\right),[/tex]

where [itex]R[/itex] is the [itex]r[/itex] coordinate at the surface of the Earth.

This metric is treated in many relativity texts, e.g., texts by Schutz, by Hobson, Efstathiou, Lasenby, and by Misner, Thorne, Wheeler.
 
tm007 said:
The mass of the Earth should curve the space surounding the Earth.

It does, but the curvature produced in the vacuum region around the Earth is Weyl curvature, not Ricci curvature.
 
tm007 said:
The mass of the Earth should curve the space surounding the Earth. Why is then the ricci tensor equal to zero.
Spacetime is curved, that's why several curvature invariants and Weyl curvature are non-zero, whereas Ricci-curvature is zero
 
tm007 said:
The mass of the Earth should curve the space surounding the Earth. Why is then the ricci tensor equal to zero.

Keep in mind that different curvature tensors measure different kinds of curvature; the Weyl curvature is the trace free part of the Riemann curvature and will not vanish in general for vacuum solutions whereas the Ricci tensor always vanishes for vacuum solutions. However you can always rely on the Riemann curvature tensor because this can vanish identically if and only if the manifold is locally isometric to euclidean space (which is of course flat).

Both the Ricci and Weyl curvatures can be made sense of physically in GR by looking at geodesic congruences and seeing which of the three kinematical quantities (expansion, shear, and twist) are dominated by which curvature quantity. See here for a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weyl_tensor
 

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