MI Paste: Calcium for Rebuilding Enamel & Dentin

[Pythagorean]

http://www.recaldent.com/

is it true that putting a calcium product on your teeth can help rebuild your enamel? How is it absorbed? Do your tissue cells actually process it or does it just bond to dentin and "become" enamel?

 

[nismaratwork]

http://www.recaldent.com/

is it true that putting a calcium product on your teeth can help rebuild your enamel? How is it absorbed? Do your tissue cells actually process it or does it just bond to dentin and "become" enamel?

No it won't, unfortunately it won't do a damned thing. The only calcium that's useful to you is the Ca in your blood.

Sodium Fluoride DOES help remineralize enamel, but its not magic... and that's if you use a high concentration, spit, don't rinse, and sleep on it.

Even then, it's only a maybe. Sorry Pythagorean.

 

[Pythagorean]

I have to report counter to your intuition from my own experiences in the last couple weeks:

The dentists said recaldent does work (but he said fluoride is about 20 times more likely to remain in your dentin than calcium is, which is why we lose our calcium). He said it works through ion exchange, and for some reason it has to be calcium phosphate (phyosphorylation, possibly?)

I use both fluoride and recaldent, but recaldent you can leave on your teeth overnight (whereas ingesting fluoride can cause dental problems).

I've done some research too (google scholar of "recaldent")
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=recaldent

but sometimes hard to tell how the authors are associated with the product (sometimes they're the salesman, too)

 

[nismaratwork]

I have to report counter to your intuition from my own experiences in the last couple weeks:

The dentists said recaldent does work (but he said fluoride is about 20 times more likely to remain in your dentin than calcium is, which is why we lose our calcium). He said it works through ion exchange, and for some reason it has to be calcium phosphate (phyosphorylation, possibly?)

I use both fluoride and recaldent, but recaldent you can leave on your teeth overnight (whereas ingesting fluoride can cause dental problems).

I've done some research too (google scholar of "recaldent")
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=recaldent

but sometimes hard to tell how the authors are associated with the product (sometimes they're the salesman, too)

Ahhhh, that makes sense...

Oh, about fluoride, swalling it is FAR worse for your kidneys than teeth, especially at Rx levels.

I think I know how you'll understand this intuitively... call it a guess, but I think you just might. GIC (Glass Ionomer Cement) interacts in a very similar, but more lasting fashion... it might act as a guide for you here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_ionomer_cement

The setting reaction is an acid-base reaction between the acidic polyelectrolyte and the aluminosilicate glass. The polyacid attacks the glass particles (also called leaching) to release cations and Fluoride ions. These ions probably metal fluoride complexes react with Polyanions to form a salt gel matrix. The Al3+ ions appear to be site bound resulting matrix resistance to flow, unlike the zinc Polyacrylate matrix. During the initial setting in the first 3 hours Calcium ions react with polycarboxylate chains.

Subsequently, the trivalent Aluminum ions react for at least 48 hours. Between 20 and 30% of the glass is decomposed by the proton attack. The Fluoride and Phosphate ions are insoluble salts and complexes. The Sodium ions form a silica gel. The structure of the fully set cement is a composite of glass particles surrounded by silica gel in a matrix of Polyanions cross-linked by ionic bridges. Within the matrix are small particles of Silica gel containing fluorite crystallites.

edit: maybe a bit more...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remineralisation_of_teeth (also shows I was wrong about serum calcium except during tooth formation)

Fluoride therapy is often used to promote remineralization. This produces the stronger and more acid-resistant fluorapatite, rather than the natural hydroxylapatite. (Both are made of calcium. The fluoride takes the place of a hydroxide.)

Fluoride exerts its major effect by creating low levels of fluoride ions in saliva and plaque fluid, thus exerting a topical or surface effect. A person living in an area with fluoridated water may experience rises of fluoride concentration in saliva to about 0.04 mg/L several times during a day.[4] Technically, this fluoride does not prevent cavities but rather controls the rate at which they develop.[5] When fluoride ions are present in plaque fluid along with dissolved hydroxyapatite, and the pH is higher than 4.5,[3] a fluorapatite-like remineralised veneer is formed over the remaining surface of the enamel; this veneer is much more acid-resistant than the original hydroxyapatite, and is formed more quickly than ordinary remineralised enamel would be.[1] The cavity-prevention effect of fluoride is partly due to these surface effects, which occur during and after tooth eruption.[6]

Since there is no connection between the bloodstream and the enamel, swallowed calcium supplements have no effect on remineralization, nor does calcium deficiency remove enamel from the teeth.[2] The calcium used to rebuild teeth must be dissolved in the saliva.

Some remineralisation methods may work for "white spot lesions" but not necessarily "intact tooth surfaces".

image from Wiki commons:

 

[Pythagorean]

Ah, I see, fluoride takes the place of hydroxide. So using MI paste and fluoride rinse in combination is better than one or the other

 

[nismaratwork]

Ah, I see, fluoride takes the place of hydroxide. So using MI paste and fluoride rinse in combination is better than one or the other

Now that would be a very wise move, and the combination should also decrease sensitivity to a small degree if that's an issue. In my view, it beats the hell out of smearing potassium nitrate on your teeth.

You might want to look at an Rx called 'Prevadent', to use in combination, or the listerine with fluoride. I'm speaking from personal experience here... very effective IMO.

 

[Pythagorean]

sensitivity isn't a problem; they make an MI+ paste, too, that has fluoride in it.

I've heard of fluoride causing teeth to become brittle, too.

The treatments are for my daughter (early childhood caries) so I don't use fluoride (except trace amounts to brush) for fear that she'll ingest it. So this makes the recaldent especially preferable.

I have some slight coloring, myself and the MI paste has definitely made it whiter.

 

[Pythagorean]

nice yellow colors, btw.

 

[nismaratwork]

nice yellow colors, btw.

Thank you sir!

 

[nismaratwork]

sensitivity isn't a problem; they make an MI+ paste, too, that has fluoride in it.

I've heard of fluoride causing teeth to become brittle, too.

The treatments are for my daughter (early childhood caries) so I don't use fluoride (except trace amounts to brush) for fear that she'll ingest it. So this makes the recaldent especially preferable.

I have some slight coloring, myself and the MI paste has definitely made it whiter.

It's possible... I'd guess that any time you add 'hardness', you sacrifice flexibility. That said, enamel is already pretty darned tough and rigid. I think given this as a use for your child, you're making the right choice. She's probably find to begin with, and the only thing excess fluoride can do is strain the kidneys.

My personal experience... stay the hell away from soda. I had perfect teeth, then HS came along with a vending machine in the dorm. Goodbye perfect teeth.

 

[Pythagorean]

It's possible... I'd guess that any time you add 'hardness', you sacrifice flexibility. That said, enamel is already pretty darned tough and rigid. I think given this as a use for your child, you're making the right choice. She's probably find to begin with, and the only thing excess fluoride can do is strain the kidneys.

My personal experience... stay the hell away from soda. I had perfect teeth, then HS came along with a vending machine in the dorm. Goodbye perfect teeth.

Mom's the only one that buys sodas, but it's very minimal. We don't even give the baby fruit juice.

 

[nismaratwork]

Mom's the only one that buys sodas, but it's very minimal. We don't even give the baby fruit juice.

I should say that I meant large consumption, not reasonable consumption. I didn't think you'd be tossing your girl a 2 liter of cola and telling her to drink up before bedtime.


I wonder if that could be the topic of, 'The Indirect Action of Caffeine on The Parents: A Tale of Brutal Insomnia.'