Michael Flynn has resigned from the National Security Council

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  • #36
nsaspook
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What is very interesting is that, apparently, while the FBI routinely records conversations with foreign diplomats, no one routinely listens to the recordings. They only happened to listen to this one in an effort to explain Putin's announcement he planned no retaliation for the sanctions:

It's not routinely listened to because everyone knows it's bugged and nothing interesting is every talked about on an unsecured line.
 
  • #38
StevieTNZ
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What an absolute joke.
 
  • #39
nsaspook
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What an absolute joke.

Exactly!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...mpaign=npr&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews
The official also said there was "absolutely nothing" in the transcripts that suggests Flynn was acting under instructions "or that the trail leads higher."

"I don't think [Flynn] knew he was doing anything wrong," the official said. "Flynn talked about sanctions, but no specific promises were made. Flynn was speaking more in general 'maybe we'll take a look at this going forward' terms."

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/putting-pieces-russia-story-together-n721141
Per NBC's Pete Williams, the FBI interviewed Flynn shortly after he took office about his conversations with the Russian ambassador, but this was part of the FBI's bigger investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election. And Williams adds, according to two sources, the FBI doesn't believe Flynn will face legal jeopardy. One possible problem for Flynn is if he lied to FBI agents. But the people Williams spoke with don't believe this will be a problem.
 
  • #40
jim hardy
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My neighbor Harry, an old horse-trader wise in the ways of the world,
thinks Trump and Flynn might have set this up on purpose to flush out blabbermouths in Intelligence community.

He says: "If it was me I'd be playing those games just to bring this 'Russian Interference' business to a head."

Hamlet ?
 
  • #41
zoobyshoe
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Like I said, he wasn't fired for Logan. He was fired for lying to Pence and others.

On the other hand, it looks like the Russians painted a target on Flynn by actually acting on his unofficial estimate of the situation. The unusual Russian reaction to the sanctions is what made people start looking for a covert agreement between them and the incoming Trump administration.
 
  • #42
nsaspook
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My neighbor Harry, an old horse-trader wise in the ways of the world,
thinks Trump and Flynn might have set this up on purpose to flush out blabbermouths in Intelligence community.

He says: "If it was me I'd be playing those games just to bring this 'Russian Interference' business to a head."

Hamlet ?

Sounds a little too much like 4D chess. Most of the 'Russian Interference' business is ipso facto nonsense that will implode on it's own in time.
 
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  • #43
nsaspook
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Like I said, he wasn't fired for Logan. He was fired for lying to Pence and others.

On the other hand, it looks like the Russians painted a target on Flynn by actually acting on his unofficial estimate of the situation. The unusual Russian reaction to the sanctions is what made people start looking for a covert agreement between them and the incoming Trump administration.

Of of all the possible things in this story that are unbelievable, him getting fired for flat out lying the VP seems most unlikely to me. Doesn't pass the smell test because I can't see a reason why he would lie about what we see from leaks was a nothing throwaway line in the conversion to him. It's much more likely the VP ran off his mouth with something of a misunderstanding because Flynn didn't think it important and treated the VP like most are in an administration, as old furniture in the corner.

I think looking for a covert agreement between them and the incoming Trump administration is exactly right as that is their job but leaking every detail to the press is not.
 
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  • #44
jim hardy
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Sounds a little too much like 4D chess. Most of the 'Russian Interference' business is ipso facto nonsense that will implode on it's own in time.
Thanks for the sanity check.
I was concerned posting such speculation, woudn't do it in a science thread,
but it was logical and I've seen such maneuvering in bureaucratic office politics,
so clearly identified it as opinion.

Hope nobody took offense .

old jim
 
  • #45
zoobyshoe
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...I can't see a reason why he would lie about what we see from leaks was a nothing throwaway line in the conversion to him.
Sometime between the conversation with the Russian ambassador and talking to Pence, Flynn obviously found out he shouldn't have discussed the sanctions. I don't know who alerted him about that, but he clearly did start pretending sanctions were not discussed at all, and he stuck doggedly to that version till the end, when he switched to not quite remembering if they were discussed or not.

I have the strong impression he did not actually realize the topic was taboo under the circumstances, and I don't fault him for throwing out an opinion, or assessment, or off the top of the head advice to the Russians. The whole problem really started when he got a clue he shouldn't have talked about sanctions, and started to pretend he hadn't. Pence, according to sources, was getting irritated with Flynn's refusal to admit his lie and show proper contrition for it. Flynn's evasive characterization was: “Unfortunately, because of the fast pace of events, I inadvertently briefed the vice president-elect and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls with the Russian ambassador...”

[That excuse, "because of the fast pace of events," incidentally, reminds me of a joke someone told me years ago, which is quite appropriate in this context:

Question: When is an American not an American?

Answer: When he's rushin'. ]
 
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  • #46
nsaspook
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Sometime between the conversation with the Russian ambassador and talking to Pence, Flynn obviously found out he shouldn't have discussed the sanctions. I don't know who alerted him about that, but he clearly did start pretending sanctions were not discussed at all, and he stuck doggedly to that version till the end, when he switched to not quite remembering if they were discussed or not.

He found out it was a big deal because someone leaked the 'facts' in the worst possible slanted light there were contacts after fact about what we now know were really benign conversations. I don't have a problem with whistle-blowers dropping a dime on known or suspected criminal activity but this was IMO different because it was a smear operation from the start because the people that originally leaked knew full well he would never be charged with anything remotely criminal because of those leaks.
 
  • #47
zoobyshoe
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He found out it was a big deal because someone leaked the 'facts' in the worst possible slanted light there were contacts after fact about what we now know were really benign conversations.
You and I agree that they were probably benign, but I only agree to that in the sense I believe Flynn did not know he should avoid amateur dabbling in foreign policy. The Russians, pretty clearly, took him to be speaking as a representative for Trump. You have to ask why they would; was this the tip of some larger iceberg of 'submarine' negotiations between Trump and the Russians? Perfectly valid suspicions for US spies of all makes and models.
I don't have a problem with whistle-blowers dropping a dime on known or suspected criminal activity but this was IMO different because it was a smear operation from the start because the people that originally leaked knew full well he would never be charged with anything remotely criminal because of those leaks.
He would have been the Telfon General if he'd only said something like, "How am I a private citizen when I'm about to enter the WH cabinet in a couple weeks? What's the big deal about an early start? You really want to make an issue out of something stupid like this?"

Instead, he acted guilty and tried to cover the sanction discussion up.

It's not the crime, it's the cover up.
 
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  • #48
nsaspook
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It's not the crime, it's the cover up.

I can't see much of a cover up either but he fell on his sword like a good soldier does to save someone else face. Flynn voluntarily resigned simply to avoid becoming a distraction.
 
  • #50
Buckleymanor
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I can't see much of a cover up either but he fell on his sword like a good soldier does to save someone else face. Flynn voluntarily resigned simply to avoid becoming a distraction.
Let's hope the focus is on the real culprit.
 
  • #51
Buckleymanor
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He would have been the Telfon General
He would have been if he had not made that Telephone call.
 
  • #52
nsaspook
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Let's hope the focus is on the real culprit.

In the Flynn case it's pretty clear now the leakers are.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/16/politics/fbi-not-expected-to-pursue-charges-against-flynn/index.html
Washington (CNN)The FBI is not expected to pursue any charges against former national security adviser Michael Flynn regarding a phone call with Russia's ambassador, barring new information that changes what they know, law enforcement officials told CNN Thursday.
...
Flynn initially told investigators sanctions were not discussed. But FBI agents challenged him, asking if he was certain that was his answer. He said he didn't remember.
The FBI interviewers believed Flynn was cooperative and provided truthful answers. Although Flynn didn't remember all of what he talked about, they don't believe he was intentionally misleading them, the officials say.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/...&gwh=0FF93C24A4385937762FC5DC31C891B6&gwt=pay
 
  • #53
zoobyshoe
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In the Flynn case it's pretty clear now the leakers are.
Who?
 
  • #54
Borg
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  • #55
zoobyshoe
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...the leakers are (the focus).
Oh, I see.
 
  • #56
jim hardy
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they don't believe he was intentionally misleading them, the officials say.
That worked for Hillary.
 

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