Minimizing distances between points of curves

  • Thread starter Thread starter dobedobedo
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Curves Points
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding expressions for distances between points on curves and points outside those curves in two-dimensional Euclidean space. The original poster is exploring methods to minimize these distances, particularly in relation to various curves such as lines, circles, parabolas, and hyperbolas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the use of the Pythagorean theorem to derive distance formulas and the implications of perpendicular distances in minimizing distances between points and curves. Questions arise regarding the parameterization of curves and the applicability of certain theorems to various types of curves, including hyperbolas.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants providing insights into parameterization techniques and questioning the generalizability of these methods to different curves. Some guidance has been offered regarding parameterization, but there remains uncertainty about the theoretical foundations and practical applications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering the constraints of parameterizing curves and the assumptions underlying the distance minimization methods discussed. There is a recognition of the theoretical versus practical aspects of these mathematical concepts.

dobedobedo
Messages
28
Reaction score
0
PROBLEM STATEMENT:

I'm looking for a somewhat general method to find the expression for the distance (in [itex]\R^2[/itex] mortal, euclidean space) between a point in a certain curve and some point outside the line.

ATTEMPTS TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM:

In the case of the distance between the origin and some point (x,y), the length is just [itex]\sqrt{x^2+y^2}[/itex]. This follows from the Pythagorean theorem, and can be used to minimize the distance between the origin and some point on a curve. We also observe that this formula can be used to minimize the distance between som point (a,b) and some point on a curve.
\\
In the case of the distance between a line Ax+By+C=0 and some point (x,y), it's magnitude is given by [itex]\frac{|Ax+By+C|}{\sqrt{A^2+B^2}}[/itex]. This can be proven through a combination of the ``length formula'' (Pythagorean Theorem) and a theorem which says that the slope of a line which is perpendicular to a line y=kx+m is equal to [itex]\frac{-1}{k}[/itex]. I found this proof on http://math.ucsd.edu/~wgarner/math4c/derivations/distance/distptline.htm I suspect that it can also be proven with some vector algebra reasoning as well. It is not a coincidence that the expression for this distance contains the length of a vector orthogonal to the line in its denominator.

In the case of minimizing the distance between a point in the circumference of a circle and some curve, things get pretty fuzzy for me. I know that once again, you use the Pythagorean theorem. What's more: since we know that the smallest distance from a line to a point is the one which forms a line perpendicular to the line in question, we know that the smallest distance from a point on the circumference on a circle and a point of some curve is the one which is perpendicular to the TANGENT LINE of the circle.

The gradient of a function is a vector which is perpendicular to the tangent line of the contour line, and therefore it shows the direction which the line must have to form the smallest distance to some other curve. How do I use this to find the expression of the smallest distance of a point on the circumference of a circle to some other point of a curve?

Other questions that I would like to find answers to are:
-what is the expression for the distance between a point of a parabola and a point?
-what is the expression for the distance between a point of a hyperbola and a point?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
The distance from a point ##(a,b)## to ##(x,y)## is given by$$
d=\sqrt{(x-a)^2+(y-b)^2}$$To minimize this quantity as ##(x,y)## varies along some curve it is usually easier to minimize$$
D=d^2 =(x-a)^2+(y-b)^2$$A general way to do this is, given a curve ##C## in the xy plane, to parameterize ##C##. For example, if ##C## is the circle of radius 2 centered at the origin, you could express ##C## as ##x=2\cos t,\, y=2\sin t##, or if ##C## is the parabola ##y = x^2##, you could parameterize it as ##x = x, y = x^2##. So, in the first example you would be minimizing$$
D = (2\cos t -a)^2+(2\sin t - b)^2$$Then you can find the critical values of ##t## using the usual calculus techniques.
 
Ok. But is it given that any curve in the plane can be parametized? If so, what theorems say this? For instance, what about the hyperbolae?
 
dobedobedo said:
Ok. But is it given that any curve in the plane can be parametized? If so, what theorems say this? For instance, what about the hyperbolae?
Any function you can express as ##y = f(x)## can be parameterized as ##x=x,\, y = f(x)##. Something like the hyperbola ##x^2-y^2=1## could be parameterized by ##x=\cosh t,\, y=\sinh t## for the left half and ##x=-\cosh t,\, y=\sinh t## for the right half. Similar things like that arise in most situations you are likely to encounter.

In theory, any rectifiable curve can be parameterized in terms of arc length, so the answer is theoretically, yes. But you may have heard the old saying: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. But in practice, they aren't".
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K