Missing step in engineering problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a step in the analysis of a cable with a distributed load in statics, focusing on the transition from force balance equations to differential equations. Participants are examining the mathematical steps involved in deriving these equations and clarifying their understanding of the limits and approximations used.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how the equation transitions from force balance to a differential form, specifically questioning the limit process that leads to d(T∙cos(θ))/dx = 0.
  • Another participant proposes that (T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) - T∙cos(θ) could be represented as Δ[T∙cos(θ)], seeking clarity on this interpretation.
  • A different participant attempts to break down the equation using small angle approximations, leading to a clearer understanding of the transition to the differential form.
  • One participant acknowledges their oversight in applying the small angle approximation and reflects on their learning process after being away from the subject for several years.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial confusion regarding the mathematical steps, but there is a shared understanding of the small angle approximation and its relevance to the problem. The discussion remains exploratory, with various interpretations and clarifications being offered.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of understanding limits and approximations in deriving differential equations from force balance equations, but does not resolve all uncertainties regarding the initial steps taken in the analysis.

Indi
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Hi there,

I'm reading over a section in my statics text that describes an analysis of a cable with a distributed load, but it's been a long time since I've done this stuff, and I'm stuck on just one step.

Here's how it goes. I'm fine with everything up to this equation:
-T∙cos(θ) + (T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) = 0

That just comes from balancing the forces in one direction on a Δx long segment of the cable. So far so good. But then the text says "dividing this equation by Δx and taking the limit as Δx→0, Δθ→0 and ΔT→0, we obtain:" and then gives this:
d(T∙cos(θ))/dx = 0

Now, I'm trying to see how they got that, and failing.:redface: Likewise, for the forces in the y direction, they go from:
-T∙sin(θ) - ω(x)∙Δx + (T + ΔT)∙sin(θ + Δθ) = 0

To:
d(T∙sin(θ))/dx - ω(x) = 0

Now, the ω(x) component I have no problem with, but again, how do they go from "[-A∙f(B) + (A + ΔA)∙f(B + ΔB)] / Δx" to "d(A∙f(B))/dx" simply by taking the limits as the Δ's go to 0?
 
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I just had a thought... could it be that:
(T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) - T∙cos(θ) ≡ Δ[T∙cos(θ)]

Or is there still something I'm missing? :rolleyes:
 
I try something

-T∙cos(θ) + (T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) = 0 (1)

but

(T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) = (T + ΔT)[cos(θ)∙cos(Δθ)-sin(θ)∙sin(Δθ)] (2)

equivalently:

(T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) =
T∙cos(θ)∙cos(Δθ)-T∙sin(θ)∙sin(Δθ) +
ΔT∙cos(θ)∙cos(Δθ)-ΔT∙sin(θ)∙sin(Δθ) (3)

when Δθ is small, the sine is practically Δθ and the cosine is one. So we have from (3):

(T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) =
T∙cos(θ)-T∙Δθ∙sin(θ) +
ΔT∙cos(θ)-ΔT∙Δθ∙sin(θ) (4)

ΔT∙Δθ∙sin(θ) can be neglected (product of very small quantities). So we have from equation (4):

(T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) =
T∙cos(θ)-T∙Δθ∙sin(θ) +
ΔT∙cos(θ) (5)

Therefore, from equation (5) and (1) we deduce:

-T∙cos(θ) + (T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) =
-T∙cos(θ) + T∙cos(θ)-T∙Δθ∙sin(θ) +
ΔT∙cos(θ) = 0

simplifying:

-T∙cos(θ) + (T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) =
-T∙Δθ∙sin(θ) + ΔT∙cos(θ) = 0

When you "divide" by Δx you get:

-T∙Δθ/Δx∙sin(θ) + ΔT/Δx∙cos(θ) = 0

Observing that

Δθ/Δx-->dθ/dx

ΔT/Δx-->dT/dx

we have:

-T∙dθ/dx∙sin(θ) + dT/dx∙cos(θ) = 0 (6)

Finally, observing that

d(T∙cos(θ))/dx = dT/dx∙cos(θ) -T∙dθ/dx∙sin(θ),
we get your answer.
 
traianus said:
(T + ΔT)∙cos(θ + Δθ) =
T∙cos(θ)∙cos(Δθ)-T∙sin(θ)∙sin(Δθ) +
ΔT∙cos(θ)∙cos(Δθ)-ΔT∙sin(θ)∙sin(Δθ) (3)

when Δθ is small, the sine is practically Δθ and the cosine is one. So we have from (3):
Of course! :cry: I got as far as Eq3, but completely forgot about the small angle trick.

traianus said:
d(T∙cos(θ))/dx = dT/dx∙cos(θ) -T∙dθ/dx∙sin(θ)
And it took me almost an hour of thinking before I finally realized what happened here too. :blushing:

I've been out of school for almost 5 years now, and getting back into the mindset is a real pita. It's all slowly coming back though! Thank you for your help!
 
I am glad I could help :)
 

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