Misunderstanding part of pascals identity algebraic proof

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a specific step in the algebraic proof of Pascal's identity, particularly focusing on the simplification of terms involving factorials. Participants explore the definitions and properties of factorials and how they apply to the proof, with an emphasis on combining terms and finding common denominators.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how the denominators of two terms combine to form a common denominator, specifically questioning the transition from (n-k+1)k!(n-k)! and k(k-1)!(n-k+1)! to k!(n-k+1)!
  • Another participant explains that the definition of factorial allows for the simplification of terms, noting that k! can be expressed as k(k-1)!, and similarly for (n-k+1) * (n-k)!.
  • A participant seeks clarification on how the expression [(n-k+1)n!kn!] simplifies to [(n+1)n!], prompting further discussion on the manipulation of terms.
  • There is a back-and-forth regarding the correct interpretation of the numerator, with one participant correcting another's misquote and clarifying that the numerator is actually (n-k+1)n! + kn! which simplifies to (n+1)n!.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the simplification steps initially, as confusion persists. However, there is a gradual clarification of the factorial definitions and their implications, leading to a better understanding for some participants.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on the properties of factorials and their definitions, which may not be universally understood or agreed upon. The discussion highlights the complexity of algebraic manipulation in combinatorial proofs.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in combinatorial proofs, factorial properties, or those studying algebraic manipulations in mathematics may find this discussion beneficial.

CuriousBanker
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I understand the combinatorial proof and the common sense behind why it works but lately I am trying to play around with proofs since I am still new to them. So I understand part of this:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...QIUvOZD4K6yQHDp4Bw&ved=0CGAQ9QEwBjgK&dur=1607

Where I am getting confused is the step where we combine terms. The denominator of the first term is (n-k+1)k!(n-k)! , and the denominator of the second term is k(k-1)!(n-k+1)!

Then on the next line the denominator is k!(n-k+1)!.

How is that a common denominator for those two terms? I see there is a (n-k+1)! in both terms...but in the second term there is a k(k-1)! and in the first term there is a k!(n-k)!...how do those two terms somehow both reduce to k!?
 
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It works because of the way the factorial is defined:
$$k! = k \cdot \underbrace{(k - 1) \cdot (k - 2) \cdots 2 \cdot 1}_{{} = (k - 1)!}$$
Similarly, you can show that (n - k + 1) * (n - k)! = (n - k + 1)!.

This is actually the reason for taking the first step: multiplying denominator and numerator by the same number so that the denominators become equal.
 
CompuChip said:
It works because of the way the factorial is defined:
$$k! = k \cdot \underbrace{(k - 1) \cdot (k - 2) \cdots 2 \cdot 1}_{{} = (k - 1)!}$$
Similarly, you can show that (n - k + 1) * (n - k)! = (n - k + 1)!.

This is actually the reason for taking the first step: multiplying denominator and numerator by the same number so that the denominators become equal.

Ok, that makes sense. But how does [(n-k+1)n!kn!]/[k!(n-k+1)!] simpylify to [(n+1)n!]/[k!((n+1)-k)!]

Totally lost as to how that step happened
 
CuriousBanker said:
Ok, that makes sense. But how does [(n-k+1)n!kn!]/[k!(n-k+1)!] simpylify to [(n+1)n!]/[k!((n+1)-k)!]

Totally lost as to how that step happened
For the numerator,
(n-k+1)n!kn!can you see that this is:
[(n-k+1)+k]n! ?

...which equals:
(n+1)n!
For the denominator, surely you can see that n-k+1=(n+1)-k
 
oay said:
For the numerator,
(n-k+1)n!kn!can you see that this is:
[(n-k+1)+k]n! ?

How? (n−k+1)n!kn! = [(n-k+1)n!]*kn!, whereas [(n−k+1)+k]n! = [(n-k+1)n!]+kn!

For the denominator, surely you can see that n-k+1=(n+1)-k

Yeah, that part is obvious
 
CuriousBanker said:
How? (n−k+1)n!kn! = [(n-k+1)n!]*kn!, whereas [(n−k+1)+k]n! = [(n-k+1)n!]+kn!
Sorry, I made the mistake of quoting your misquote. :redface:

The numerator is actually (n-k+1)n!+kn! which is [(n-k+1)+k]n! which is (n+1)n!
 
oay said:
Sorry, I made the mistake of quoting your misquote. :redface:

The numerator is actually (n-k+1)n!+kn! which is [(n-k+1)+k]n! which is (n+1)n!

Ah, I understand now, thank you so much! That was bugging me for hours
 

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