Modeling air temperature and pressure in an open system (decompressing tank)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on modeling the behavior of air temperature and pressure in an open system, specifically a decompression scenario involving a tank with a defined volume and exit pipe. It explores theoretical approaches to understand the dynamics of temperature and pressure changes during the decompression process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) seeks to model the temperature and pressure changes in a tank during a blow down test, noting the initial conditions of temperature and pressure.
  • Some participants mention the need to consider choke conditions at the pipe exit and assume isentropic behavior while ignoring frictional losses.
  • One participant suggests using differential equations to model the mass flow rate out of the tank as a function of pressure and time, indicating that the relationship is complex and not straightforward.
  • The proposed mass flow rate equation includes variables such as the density of the gas and the pressure difference between the ambient and tank pressure.
  • Another participant points out that the thread has been inactive for almost a year, indicating a lack of follow-up on the original question.
  • The OP expresses appreciation for any additional ideas or methods that may arise, highlighting ongoing uncertainty in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have not reached a consensus on the best approach to model the system, and multiple competing views and methods are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the problem, particularly regarding the interdependence of pressure, temperature, and mass flow rate during decompression. Assumptions such as isentropic behavior and perfect insulation are noted, but the implications of these assumptions remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, and modeling of open systems, particularly in engineering contexts related to gas behavior and decompression processes.

fflachowski
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I am trying to determine how to accurately model an open system which includes:

A tank: Volume = 1320 gallons
An exit pipe from tank: Diameter = 3 inches

The tank is compressed from atmospheric conditions to a final pressure of 100 psig. Then the tank is allowed to decompress by opening a valve at the exit (blow down test).

The air in the tank is initially at 400 F and 100 psig.

The temperature in the tank decreases as pressure decreases. How do I model the temperature change in the tank as well as pressure.

Keep in mind choke conditions at the pipe exit. Assume isentropic behavior and perfect insulation. Ignore frictional losses of the exit pipe and bends.

Hope you guys can help me with this. Thanks!


FYI: The problem I am having is that, we known, PV=mRT but the pressure changes with the temperature, but the mass also changes due to decompression (open system).
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Joule–Thomson effect on Wikipedia along with the equations
 
There are a couple of different ways to approach the problem, the more accurate of which utilize differential equations. You basically need to look at the mass flow rate out of the tank as a function of pressure, which in turn is a function of time. It isn't straightforward, but it can be done.

The basic form of the relationship would be something like this:
\frac{d}{dt}m(t)=-m_{dot}

Where m.dot is the flow rate out of the orifice, and dependent on p(t) and rho(t).

m_{dot}(t)=C*A*\sqrt{2*\rho(t)*(P_{ambient}-P_{tank}(t))}
 
Oops also noticed this thread is almost a year old and was never followed-up on by the OP. Thanks emerhawk.
 
Yes it has been almost a year since I received a response. If other ideas/ methods keep rolling in, I appreciate them. Thank you.
 

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
998
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 48 ·
2
Replies
48
Views
9K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 45 ·
2
Replies
45
Views
6K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
6K
Replies
9
Views
4K