Molar Mass of a Mixture: Calculating with nN2, nO2, and p=nRT/V

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the molar mass of a gas mixture consisting of nitrogen (N2), oxygen (O2), and carbon dioxide (CO2). Participants explore various equations and approaches related to the molar mass, partial pressures, and mole fractions of the gases involved.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about calculating the molar mass of the mixture and presents their calculations for the number of moles of N2 and O2, as well as total pressure and partial pressures.
  • Another participant asserts that 31 g/mol is the correct answer for the molar mass, suggesting it is a weighted average of the individual gases' molar masses.
  • Some participants discuss the need to calculate molar fractions of the gases present in the mixture, with one participant providing specific percentages for nitrogen, carbon, and oxygen.
  • There is a mention of confusion regarding whether to treat CO2 as a compound or to split it into its constituent elements for calculations.
  • One participant questions why the formula Mmix=ΣxniMi does not seem to work for their calculations, indicating a misunderstanding of the symbols involved.
  • Another participant clarifies that the mixture is not a compound and does not have a single molar mass, but can be described by an equivalent molar mass for gas behavior.
  • Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the calculations and the definitions of components in the mixture.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to calculating the molar mass, with multiple competing views and ongoing confusion regarding the definitions and calculations involved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the definitions of components and the application of formulas, as well as unresolved issues regarding the treatment of CO2 in the calculations.

pressurised
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations


M=m/n
p=nRT/V

The Attempt at a Solution


I am confused on getting the molar mass of the mixture, unless the answer is wrong.
For nN2 I done 0.79*(3*10-3) which gave me 2.37*10-3kmol

For nO2 I done the same but with 0.21 to get 6.3*10-4kmol

The ntotal of the mixture is 3.5*10-3kmol

For each pressure I used p=nRT/V with R=8314 to get 174.594kPa for the total pressure, 31.427kPa for the partial pressure of oxygen, and 118.225kPa for nitrogen.
But when working out the partial pressure of CO2 I got 24.942kPa. In the answers it states it is actually meant to be 29.94kPa but unless this is a mistake, I am not sure why it would be this.

Lastly for the Molar mass, I done (mO2/ntotal)+(mN2/ntotal)+(mCO2/ntotal) to find the total molar mass, and that gave me 14.455kg/kmol, when it should apparently be 31kg/kmol.

I done 1/3*(0.5*10-3)(16) to find the mass of Carbon and used 2/3 for the mass of Oxygen in the CO2.
 
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31 g/mol is a correct answer.

Molar mass in this case is a weighted average of molar masses of individual gases (weighted by molar fractions).
 
Borek said:
31 g/mol is a correct answer.

Molar mass in this case is a weighted average of molar masses of individual gases (weighted by molar fractions).

I can't seem to get anywhere close to 31g/mol. I'm not sure how to really do this.

I done (0.21*16)+(0.79+14)+(⅓*12*1/6)+(2/3*16*1/6) and got 16.86g/mol...
 
Start calculating molar fractions of all gases present in the mixture.
 
Borek said:
Start calculating molar fractions of all gases present in the mixture.

I got 67.7% of the mixture is Nitrogen, 4.8% is Carbon and 27.5% is Oxygen?
 
I said "gases", not "elements".
 
Borek said:
I said "gases", not "elements".

I'm completely lost with this. But to what you said, is it 85.7% dry air and 14.3% CO2?

Do you happen to know any text or video that explains this clearly?
 
I'm really confused as to why, Mmix=ΣxniMi doesn't work with this?
 
pressurised said:
I'm completely lost with this. But to what you said, is it 85.7% dry air and 14.3% CO2?

Yes, but you have to split dry air further into oxygen and nitrogen (which are both gases and elements, but treat them just as gases).

Do you happen to know any text or video that explains this clearly?

Sorry, no.

pressurised said:
I'm really confused as to why, Mmix=ΣxniMi doesn't work with this?

Definitely works, but you should take care about meaning of the symbols involved.

What are substances denoted by i?

What is xi?

What is Mi?
 
  • #10
Borek said:
Yes, but you have to split dry air further into oxygen and nitrogen (which are both gases and elements, but treat them just as gases).
Sorry, no.
Definitely works, but you should take care about meaning of the symbols involved.

What are substances denoted by i?

What is xi?

What is Mi?

I should have used Mj and xj, but the sum of Mi (is the molar mass of each component) multiplied by ni (the mole fraction).

I actually split up the dry air into oxygen and nitrogen to carry out the calculation but it won't generate the correct answer for me?
So I take it I shouldn't split up the CO2 into carbon and oxygen but treat it as a gas? If so that's when I got confused as to finding the molar mass of this compound... (sorry Chemistry is not my strong point)
 
  • #11
pressurised said:
I should have used Mj and xj, but the sum of Mi (is the molar mass of each component) multiplied by ni (the mole fraction).

Doesn't matter if you enumerate compounds with i, j or k, or whatever.

I think you are lost about what is a "component" here, especially as

pressurised said:
finding the molar mass of this compound

the mixture is not a compound - it is a mixture of compounds. And actually it doesn't have a molar mass, as molar mass is a property of a compound - something with well defined molecular formula. Mixture doesn't have a formula, it contains separate compounds, each one having a separate formula.

However, when we are dealing with gases each mixture of them can be described by an equivalent molar mass. That is, it will behave (not in chemical reactions, but during physical changes - when being heated, compressed and so on) as a gas with such a molar mass. And this equivalent molar mass can be calculated using formula you have listed - but for calculations you need to take into account all mixed gases, in this case N2, O2 and CO2.

Does it clarify things a bit?
 
  • #12
Borek said:
Doesn't matter if you enumerate compounds with i, j or k, or whatever.

I think you are lost about what is a "component" here, especially as
the mixture is not a compound - it is a mixture of compounds. And actually it doesn't have a molar mass, as molar mass is a property of a compound - something with well defined molecular formula. Mixture doesn't have a formula, it contains separate compounds, each one having a separate formula.

However, when we are dealing with gases each mixture of them can be described by an equivalent molar mass. That is, it will behave (not in chemical reactions, but during physical changes - when being heated, compressed and so on) as a gas with such a molar mass. And this equivalent molar mass can be calculated using formula you have listed - but for calculations you need to take into account all mixed gases, in this case N2, O2 and CO2.

Does it clarify things a bit?

Thank you I understand now. By compound I meant I was struggling to find the molar mass of the CO2 (compound) but it was far more straightforward than I initially thought.
Another part I initially messed up on was failing to realize the figures were not for the molecular pairs O and N travel in, I think that's what you were trying to hint to me when saying 'gases' and not 'elements'? :)
 
  • #13
pressurised said:
think that's what you were trying to hint to me when saying 'gases' and not 'elements'? :)

Not exactly, but it looks like there were several levels of misunderstanding and confusion - no sense to straighten that up now.
 

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