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Molecular Hydrogen at the Edge of Universe!

  1. May 9, 2006 #1

    Astronuc

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    This might belong in Cosmology, but I'd thought I'd start it here.

    Astronomers Find Molecular Hydrogen At Edge Of Universe
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060508112217.htm

    Well OK, but . . .
    :surprised No $#!t !!!
    Thoughts?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. May 10, 2006 #2

    Bystander

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    Looks like an "atomic hydrogen torch" thermometer to me.
     
  4. May 12, 2006 #3

    wolram

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    I thought an electron was an elementary particle, so how can it change ?
     
  5. May 12, 2006 #4

    Astronuc

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    It's not clear to me what changed. The articles mentions the ratio of the mass of the proton to the mass of the electron, or actually "ratio of the proton to electron masses".

    I would suspect that the electron did not change, but rather the proton, and really this would imply the strong nuclear force would have changed, i.e. quark confinement.

    And I'm still thinking about mass and it's meaning, and how nuclear binding energy is invovled, and how quarks (ostensibly) have mass, and now I have to learn about the Higgs field.
     
  6. May 12, 2006 #5

    wolram

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    The Higgs field as i understand must gravitate, every thing seems to get
    strange at this level.
     
  7. May 22, 2006 #6

    hellfire

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    There is a lot of non-standard cosmology addressing this issue of the variation of the electron - proton mass ratio or other dimensionless quantities, see for example Dirac's Large Number Hypothesis. In a closed system like the universe, with no outside reference, the correct variations to be measured are probably only those which are dimensionless quantities. The variation of other quantities depend on the way they are measured and on the standards which are set. Garth makes a lot of effort to bring this issues into our attention in this forum... Just a thought that may be a bit off-topic.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2006
  8. May 22, 2006 #7

    Garth

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    I am surprised that the existence of molecular hydrogen at the 0.4% of atomic hydrogen level is such an issue and could lead to such a revolutionary conclusion.

    Now the existence of high iron abundance, 3 x solar, at such ranges is interesting! Is the universe older than expected?
    Just a thought,

    Garth
     
  9. May 23, 2006 #8

    wolram

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    Garth that article is 4yrs old any thing new since.

    Now the existence of high iron abundance, 3 x solar, at such ranges is interesting! Is the universe older than expected?
     
  10. May 23, 2006 #9

    Garth

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    Constraints from the Old Quasar Apm 08279+5255 on Two Classes of Lambda(t)-Cosmologies March 2006 published in International Journal of Modern Physics D
    By Ned wright's cosmology calculator for a flat universe with H0 = 71 km/sec/Mpsc and OmegaM = 0.27 the age at z = 3.91 comes out as 1.614 Gyr.

    Yes, I believe observations are telling us there is an Age Problem in the early universe and the early universe is older than expected in the mainstream LCDM model.

    Of course one could argue for yet more undiscovered physics, untested in the laboratory, which may resolve this problem, such as a new way of making iron quickly. There is a good precedent for such an argument. :smile:

    Garth
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2006
  11. May 25, 2006 #10

    Labguy

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    The link provided states in part that:
    But, Heger and Woosley have a paper which states that nucleosynthesis of Population III stars depends greatly on the He mass and total mass.
    http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/n...J...567..532H&db_key=AST&high=3cc290f1be15543
    It could be (unknown at present) that a majority of Population III stars are (were) at the "upper mass" category where much 56Ni is produced. The article doesn't equate the two, but 56Ni quickly decays to 56Fe, even in the lesser supernovae we observe today. If that is so, it could explain the high Fe abundance very soon after first star formation. Especially true since the "high mass" stars live the shortest period of time.
     
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