Momentum-Work: Confused about KE = 1/2mv2?

  • Context: Undergrad 
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between kinetic energy (KE), momentum (p), and work (W), specifically addressing the equation KE = 1/2mv². Participants explore the derivation of this equation and its connection to momentum and work, examining the implications of variable speed and initial conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivation of KE = 1/2mv² and attempts to relate momentum and work through various equations.
  • The participant derives v² = 2as and suggests that KE can be expressed as 1/2p*v, but struggles with the transition to work.
  • Another participant points out that when calculating distance, average velocity should be used if speed is not constant, noting that in the KE formula, v represents the final speed.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of considering initial velocity (v₀) in the context of constant force and relates it to the average velocity, leading to the expected result of KE = 1/2mv².

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of initial conditions and average velocity in the derivation of the kinetic energy formula, but there is no consensus on the participant's initial confusion regarding the relationship between momentum and work.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about constant force and initial conditions, as well as the dependence on definitions of velocity and distance in the context of variable motion.

Zula110100100
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I am confused about the KE = 1/2mv2

I was able to get v2=2as from it, by removing mass from each side you get as = 1/2v2 then rearrange, but I was trying to relate momentum and work in my head, and since p = mv than KE = 1/2 p * v

but starting with Work = F * s

and since s = vt

Work = F*vt

then solve for time t = W/Fv

and p = mv
v = at
so p = mat

so p = Ft(assuming no original momentum)

substitute for t and

p = FW/Fv

p = W/v

W = pv

W = mv2

So what am I doing wrong? because mv2 does not equals 1/2mv2

I was thinking maybe because I am not using t0 and v0, but it doesn't seem like that's it, it seems the only way is with the 2as but it should tie back in somewhere...

and even working backwards from KE = 1/2mv2
Fvt = 1/2pv
devide by V and multiply by 2
and p = 2 F*t
p = 2 m*a*t
p = 2 mv
 
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Zula110100100 said:
and since s = vt
Since the speed is not constant, you need to use the average velocity when calculating distance. In the KE formula, the v is the final speed.
 
Oh, okay, so it kinda has to do with not using v0[\SUB]...and the like
 
Zula110100100 said:
Oh, okay, so it kinda has to do with not using v0[\SUB]...and the like

Right. For the simple case of a constant force applied to an object initially at rest (v0 = 0), we'll have vave = v/2. So:
W = F*s = F*v/2*t = (F*t)*v/2 = (mv)*v/2 = 1/2mv2. As expected.
 

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