Motional EMF induced between the ends of the rotating rod

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of motional electromotive force (EMF) induced in a rotating rod within a magnetic field. Participants explore the relationship between the electric field, velocity, and magnetic field, as well as the implications of the rod's motion on the induced EMF over time. The conversation includes both theoretical and mathematical considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants state that the equation ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) + \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{r}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})= \mathbf{0}## holds everywhere in the rod, indicating that the Lorentz force is zero in steady-state, leading to the conclusion that ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) = - \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{r}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})##.
  • There is a suggestion that as points P and Q (the ends of the rod) move in and out of the magnetic field, there is a change in the direction of the induced EMF.
  • Some participants agree that the induced EMF will not be represented by a simple integral due to the discontinuity caused by the movement of P and Q.
  • One participant proposes that the voltage will alternate between ##V## and ##-V## based on the angular position of the rod, indicating a periodic behavior of the induced EMF.
  • Another participant notes that the induced EMF is proportional to the rate at which the magnetic flux is cut by the rod, suggesting that the EMF will behave like a square wave, flipping polarity every π radians.
  • There is a mathematical expression provided for the induced EMF, relating it to flux density, rate of rotation, and the length of the rod, with a specific integral formulation presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of the induced EMF, particularly regarding its continuity and the representation of its value over time. There is no consensus on a single model or approach, as multiple perspectives are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of the rod's motion and the changing magnetic environment, but there are unresolved assumptions about the nature of the induced EMF and its mathematical representation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electromagnetism, particularly in the context of motional EMF, as well as individuals exploring the mathematical modeling of physical phenomena involving rotating systems in magnetic fields.

VVS2000
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TL;DR
Suppose I have a rod which is rotating about a point on one of the edges of a rectangular region. A uniform magnetic field exists in the region and it is coming out of the plane of the region
How to find the induced emf between the ends of the rotating rod?
Picture given below
16382054268036981608784320922012.jpg
 
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The equation ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) + \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{r}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})= \mathbf{0}## holds everywhere in the rod; this is a statement that the Lorentz force is zero in the steady-state. This let's you deduce the electric field ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) = - \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{r}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})## everywhere in the rod. The voltage between the ends is nothing but the line integral ##\int \mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{r}## along the rod.
 
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ergospherical said:
The equation ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) + \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{r}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})= \mathbf{0}## holds everywhere in the rod; this is a statement that the Lorentz force is zero in the steady-state. This let's you deduce the electric field ##\mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) = - \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{r}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r})## everywhere in the rod. The voltage between the ends is nothing but the line integral ##\int \mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{r}## along the rod.
But your answer doesn't seem to depend on time because clearly, as P and Q(The ends) go in and out of the loop, is'nt there a change in the direction of induced emf?
 
VVS2000 said:
as P and Q(The ends) go in and out of the loop, is'nt there a change in the direction of induced emf?
Yes!
 
ergospherical said:
Yes!
So the answer won't be an integral because of the discontinuity that exists everytime P and Q go in and out of the plane
 
That equation is true at any given time. The voltage will be ##V## until ##\pi / \omega##, and then ##-V## until ##2\pi / \omega##, and then...
 
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ergospherical said:
That equation is true at any given time. The voltage will be ##V## until ##\pi / \omega##, and then ##-V## until ##2\pi / \omega##, and then...
Is there a way How you arrived at that answer? Intuitively, I can understand but can't do it mathematically
 
The EMF induced is proportional to the rate flux is cut by the conductive rod.

As the angular area is swept, the flux is cut at a constant rate, so the rod EMF V, will be a square wave, alternating between ±V . The polarity will flip every π radians.

The induced EMF will be proportional to flux density, multiplied by the rate of rotation, multiplied by half the length of the rod.
 
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Baluncore said:
The induced EMF will be proportional to flux density, multiplied by the rate of rotation, multiplied by half the length of the rod.
The last dependence is quadratic, viz
\begin{align*}
V = -\int \mathbf{E}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{r} = \int \mathbf{v}(\mathbf{r}) \times \mathbf{B}(\mathbf{r}) \cdot d\mathbf{r} = \omega B \int_0^{l/2} r dr = \dfrac{1}{8} \omega B l^2
\end{align*}
 
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  • #10
Thanks a lot everyone!
 

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