The factors determining the induced EMF in a wire

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the factors determining the induced electromotive force (emf) in a straight wire, particularly focusing on the angles involved when the wire is not perpendicular to the magnetic field lines. Participants explore the implications of different angles on the induced emf, questioning the applicability of the standard equation under varying conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the induced emf is given by the equation (emf=Blv sinθ), where θ is the angle between the direction of motion and the magnetic field lines.
  • Others question whether the angle θ should be the angle between the wire and the magnetic field (θ1) or the angle between the direction of motion and the magnetic field (θ2), and whether these angles are equivalent.
  • One participant emphasizes that the induced emf depends on the change of magnetic flux through the circuit and suggests that the equation may still hold even if the wire starts its motion at an angle less than 90 degrees to the magnetic field lines.
  • Another participant notes that the angle θ in the motional emf equation specifically refers to the angle between the velocity vector and the magnetic field vector, suggesting that the angle between the wire and the field may be less relevant.
  • A later reply challenges the simplification that θ is always the angle between the velocity vector and the magnetic field vector, indicating that the actual induced emf is related to a more complex relationship involving the triple product of vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of the angles involved in the induced emf equation, with no consensus reached on which angle should be used or the implications of starting the wire's motion at an angle less than 90 degrees to the magnetic field.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions highlight the need for closed circuits in examples, and there are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about the angles and their relationships in the context of the induced emf.

Asmaa Mohammad
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The induced emf in a straight wire is determined by the equation (emf=Blv sinθ) where θ is the angle between the direction of the motion and the lines of the magnetic field, and frequently, I see diagrams like these explaining the phenomenon:
Nc6gm.gif

vX8Hm.jpg

In those pictures the wire is perpendicular to the lines of the field, so it starts its motion of that state, and I was wondering what if the wire was like this:
3VfCi.jpg

In that diagram the angle between the wire and the field is not 90 it is θ1 and the angle between the direction of the motion and the magnetic field lines is θ2.
So, in the equation (emf=Blv sinθ) which angle will be involved here? θ1 or θ2? Or θ1=θ2? And then there will be no difference.
Note: in the last diagram the wire moves from position 1 to position 2.
 
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The basic tule id that the induced emf is dependent on the change of magnetic flux through the circuit. Then you may compute it and get some special case results in given setups.
 
Orodruin said:
The basic tule id that the induced emf is dependent on the change of magnetic flux through the circuit. Then you may compute it and get some special case results in given setups.
Actually I don't have given setups, this question came to my mind while studying the induced emf in a straight wire, and all the figures show that the wire starts its motion from the position where it is perpendicular to the field lines.
I wonder whether the equation still the same if the wire starts its motion from the position where there is an angle <90 between it and the magnetic field lines.
 
Asmaa Mohammad said:
Actually I don't have given setups, this question came to my mind while studying the induced emf in a straight wire, and all the figures show that the wire starts its motion from the position where it is perpendicular to the field lines.
I wonder whether the equation still the same if the wire starts its motion from the position where there is an angle <90 between it and the magnetic field lines.

But you do have closed circuits in your examples. Regardless, you can compute the emf in the wire by considering the magnetic flux through the area swept by the wire per time unit.
 
Asmaa Mohammad said:
The induced emf in a straight wire is determined by the equation (emf=Blv sinθ) where θ is the angle between the direction of the motion and the lines of the magnetic field, and frequently, I see diagrams like these explaining the phenomenon:
Nc6gm.gif

vX8Hm.jpg

In those pictures the wire is perpendicular to the lines of the field, so it starts its motion of that state, and I was wondering what if the wire was like this:
3VfCi.jpg

In that diagram the angle between the wire and the field is not 90 it is θ1 and the angle between the direction of the motion and the magnetic field lines is θ2.
So, in the equation (emf=Blv sinθ) which angle will be involved here? θ1 or θ2? Or θ1=θ2? And then there will be no difference.
Note: in the last diagram the wire moves from position 1 to position 2.
In motional emf equation, θ is the angle between the velocity vector and magnetic field vector.
 
cnh1995 said:
In motional emf equation, θ is the angle between the velocity vector and magnetic field vector.
So, we would ignore the angle between the wire and the magnetic field lines and only consider the angle between the direction of motion and the magnetic field lines?
 
cnh1995 said:
In motional emf equation, θ is the angle between the velocity vector and magnetic field vector.
This is not precisely true. It is true only when the wire is orthogonal to both velocity and field. The actual induced emf would be proportional to the triple product ##\vec B\cdot (d\vec \ell\times \vec v)##. The cross product would be the area element swept per unit time and taking its scalar product with ##\vec B## gives the flux.
 
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