Movie Classics that totally escape me

[Bystander]

Okay, from Rotten Tomatoes Best Hundred in order plus brief comments: 1) WoO, meh; 5) Casa., not bad; 11) TBoF, high "camp," but I'd never pay specifically for it---take it in a "grab bag" at a garage sale; 12) SWatSD, Disney wants too much money; 13) K-K, Fay Wray; 15) N, maybe it is, and maybe it isn't complete, but it's all I've found, seems very fragmentary---foreign, silent, thirties---keep thinking I'll spring for John Malkovich, SotV, but can't bring myself to drop that much for Willem Dafoe; 17) TAoRH, Errol Flynn?; 18) HD'sN,

good quality without the screaming.

; 19) Psycho, what can be said, got multiple copies, plus first sequel is worth watching; 21) NNW, set it up on "loop;" 23) RW, ditto; 26) AQotWF, intense; 30) Vertigo, Stewart is not up to RW form, nor, is Hitchcock, I'll take Mel Brooks' spoof (High Anxiety) any day; 32) LoA, and 33) TTotSM, "I want my money back;" 35) F, "meh;" 36) C-town, a little Jack Nicholson goes a loonnngggg way; 37) DSoHILtSWaLtB, bravissimo; 38) TBS, those who think I prefer Buster Keaton to Bogie are in for a surprise, agents used to be literal murder, look at James Garner; 39) KHaC, Alec Guinness did some stuff back in the "dark ages" that is priceless; 42) R'sBaby, "pray;" 44) TGoW, another "Once? Yes, but no re-runs, please," Steinbeck is too damnably depressing; 46) OtWF, parents took me when little, and I've never been able to gag down another Brando film; 47) RomanH, another family movie from my childhood, take it, or leave it; 49) GWTW, sneered at elsewhere in the thread; 50) CHL, opening scene with pipe cutter, beheading parking meters, is one I came in on the end---I've DVRed it, but don't know that I'll ever be able to take the second time; and, that's halfway through the list.

Wide Sargasso Sea

Which one? Imdb lists three.

 

[DaveC426913]

Which one? Imdb lists three.

It was decades ago. So presumably the 1993 one.

 

[Klystron]

To see Fay Wray in the best light try to find the original uncensored "King Kong" before the Catholic censors forced the studio to cover her up or cut her scenes. Ditto for Maureen O'Sullivan and swimmer Johnny Weissmuller in the pre-code "Tarzan the Ape-Man" released in 1932. I never understood what Edgar Rice Burroughs fans were so angry about until I saw the original movies not hacked by some Catholic monsignor.

Certainly the woman / Ape attraction makes more sense. Televised versions were so censored that Fay seems surrounded by a hazy translucent cloud while Tarzan mainly hangs out with Cheetah.

 

[PeroK]

Worst over-hyped foreign film of my teen years: "I Am Curious, Yellow", followed by that director's other "color"-titled flicks. Apparently the hype was over a few minutes of full male / female nudity.

Spoiler: Curious?

Other than some lackluster love making the entire film is a sleeper. My mother the librarian received free tickets for film festivals and special screenings that I often inheirited. Generally, I like so-called foreign films to glean little cultural tidbits. This film was incredibly BORING.

The female character was plain, overweight and frigid. The dude was plain, limp and had no idea how to make love with a woman. I thankfully cannot remember the plot, if any.

Avoid at all cost.

If you wanted more action, you should have tried "Conan the Librarian".

 

[DennisN]

Halle Berry got a best actress for Monster's Ball, and showed up in person at the razzies

...and Sandra Bullock also accepted her razzie in person for "All About Steve". Two very funny class acts, in my opinion, which can be seen here: Halle Berry razzie clip and Sandra Bullock razzie clip.

 

[DennisN]

I'll step into the "blender/barrel" first and say I liked Howard the Duck, not before it's cameo in GotG had piqued my curiosity, but... Off to the lists to present a full confession of "acknowledged" hits and misses.

I haven't seen Howard the Duck.

Somebody complained about Chevy Chase before in the thread, and I will admit I enjoy National Lampoon's Vacation movies. Particularly National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation because it makes fun of christmas celebrations which many people take seriously.

And I have another confession to make, which makes me sweat a bit from embarrassment...
I liked Pacific Rim, even though I think the background story is silly:

Spoiler

Quote from Wikipedia:
"In 2013, an interdimensional portal called "the breach" opens at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, from which giant monsters, the Kaiju, emerge, destroying various cities across the Pacific Rim."

I just saw that it has a reasonably good reception (72/100, 77/100) at Rotten Tomatoes. Trailer is here.
I'll think about if I have some more confessions.

 

[DennisN]

Okay, from Rotten Tomatoes Best Hundred in order plus brief comments:

Here's my list of hits which I have seen from the Rotten Tomatoes Best Hundred list:

• Citizen Kane : I liked it.
• The Third Man : I liked it, but expected more.
• Casablanca: Great.
• Snow White: Good.
• Psycho: Good.
• Vertigo: Great.
• Dr. Strangelove: Great.
• Rosemary's Baby: Good.
• 2001: I don't remember.
• Some Like It Hot: Good.
• Goldfinger: Good.
• The Bridge on the River Kwai: Good.
• Paths of Glory: Good.
• A Fistful of Dollars: Good.
• LOTR - The Two Towers: Good, but I think The Fellowship of the Ring is the best in the film trilogy.
• One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: Great.

I am going to watch The Wizard of Oz since it is at number one on the list, and All Quiet on the Western Front since it's on the list and has been mentioned in this thread. I'm also going to see North by Northwest and The 39 Steps since I like Hitchcock and I don't remember if I have seen them.

 

[DaveC426913]

Starship Troopers.
I had a tough time staying in my seat. At one point, I actually found myself unconsciously trying to crawl up the back of my own theatre seat to escape the painful acting (in particular, the "let's all get tattos" dialogue).

It was the same thing I felt during Showgirls. It's the same feeling I get when reading a novice writer's first few attempts at serious writing.

I don't know why Verhoeven directs like this, but it's as if he is trying to make his audience uncomfortable - with a sort of mockery of cliches . To me, it comes across as insincere - he doesn't have the courage of his convictions. He directs as if the thinks you're "uncool" if you don't ironically appreciate truly bad directing.

 

[Bystander]

he is trying to make his audience uncomfortable - with a sort of mockery of cliches .

"Empathetic" embarrassment; don't people know when everyone's laughing, or don't comedians know when everyone's not? Robin Williams makes me feel that way; Steve Martin has occasionally gone "over the top" that way as well (his "Rubberheads throw fish" routine).

 

[Klystron]

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: Great.

Dennis, As you thought "Cuckoo's Nest" was great, you might be a Ken Kesey fan, the author of the novel and main subject of Tom Wolfe's "Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test".

Kesey also wrote "Sometimes a Great Notion" about a twisted clan of lumberjacks up in Oregon. Paul Newman bought the rights and directed a movie also listed as "Never Give an Inch" staring Henry Fonda, Richard Jaekel, Lee Remick and Newman in the principle role. Without spoiling the movie I will say Newman's character faces possibly the worst work day in cinema history.

Spoiler: Do not read this. See the movie or read the novel.

Hank Jr. finds out the family will not be paid for their lumber contract.
The entire town hates him for being a non-union "scab" logger.
His elderly father is torn almost in half by tree. Brother takes Hank Sr. to town in only truck.
His foxy wife is unfaithful to him after he goes to work.
His wife is unfaithful with his brother who hates him.
His brother is actually his son who finds this out from the wife.
Back at work his favorite relative dies in his arms. A hose from the truck could have saved him.
Union townies attack and beat him as he tries to tell family of the death.
His wife leaves him for the young brother. All this before lunch.
He is responsible for nearly all the above.

Starship Troopers.
I had a tough time staying in my seat. [...]
I don't know why Verhoeven directs like this, but it's as if he is trying to make his audience uncomfortable - with a sort of mockery of cliches . To me, it comes across as insincere - he doesn't have the courage of his convictions. He directs as if the thinks you're "uncool" if you don't ironically appreciate truly bad directing.

Word on the street was that Paul Verhoeven saw WWII troops as a kid and as a result thought all military Fascist. Hence the dorky uniforms and stupid dialogue lifted from Robocop. Verhoeven disliked Robert Heinlein's books and refused to read the source material; Heinlein actually predicts this in end notes. Verhoeven chose the worst actors that looked good, then called the mess a "satire" to save face.

The novel makes clear that Juan is black -- Afro-Filipino -- and speaks Tagalog at home, a milestone in science-fiction when "Starship Troopers" was published. Heinlein foresaw diversity in a professional military. Much of the novel concerns armored spacesuits. Director cleanses all this. No suits even on airless planet. Turkish drill instructor, Zim, becomes lily white, his vital role cut to nothing to include a spurious high school football game.

 

[WWGD]

Common Klystron, cheesy joke #37.

Libran, Librarian , ha-ha (not).

 

[mathwonk]

My impression is that a lot of movie "classics" are such because of "cinematic innovation", and not necessarily fun to watch today, e.g. Citizen Kane, Easy Rider, ... the first of which is pretty good in my opinion and the second of which is terrible: well, maybe the early scene is ok where Peter Fonda says something like "we blew it" after they do a drug deal and they ride off on cool bikes to the tune of "The Pusher" by Steppenwolf. I think 2001 was a movie that in the 60's stoners enjoyed watching on an enormous screen while under the influence.

So I suspect "classics" are movies that are either innovative, or feature great acting performances, or terrifically clever scriptwriting, or directing, or cinematography. I have seen almost all the movies on that list of 100 top movies, and think they essentially all have one or more of those qualities, with one exception: Rio Bravo. That to me is a juvenile traditional hollywood shoot-em-up cowboy movie, that I have actually enjoyed watching, but that has absolutely no "classic" qualities in my opinion. I do not know how that one got on there. If they wanted a John Wayne movie, newer than "the Searchers", I would suggest :"The Shootist", which is the only John Wayne movie I myself like, maybe because it also stars Lauren Bacall, Jimmy Stewart, Scatman Crothers, Harry Morgan, Ron Howard, as well as the tv stars Richard Boone, and Hugh O'Brian.

I tend to enjoy movies where the bad guys get their comeuppance and good guys win. So I liked Forrest Gump, The Fugitive, Lonesome Dove, Bad day at Black Rock, Witness, True Believer, as well as Samurai movies like the Samurai trilogy, Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, the Twilight Samurai, ...,, but I also have enjoyed "romantic" comedies like Don Juan deMarco, Alice, Sweet and Downlow, Saving Grace, ...

I also suggest From here to eternity, On the waterfront, The hustler, Witness for the prosecution, Diabolique (in French with Simone Signoret, very scary murder mystery), and I actually was entertained by the first three Jason Bourne movies and that other Matt Damon movie where he plays a brilliant math genius who works as a janitor at MIT. For an adventure movie, there is the 1930's version of Count of Monte Cristo, with Robert Donat, but you may have trouble finding it; the long version in French with Gerard Depardieu is good too, but takes extensive liberties with the novel. Also the Fencing Master (in Spanish), and if you succeed in finding this one let me know where as I would like to see it again sometime.

anyway, thanks for the fun thread.

 

[Bystander]

Bad day at Black Rock

"YES!" Didn't think anyone would ever mention that one.

 

[mathwonk]

@Bystander: Just guessing, I wonder if Don Juan de Marco is a Brando film you could enjoy. also stars Johnny Depp, and Faye Dunaway.

 

[DennisN]

Kesey also wrote "Sometimes a Great Notion" about a twisted clan of lumberjacks up in Oregon. Paul Newman bought the rights and directed a movie also listed as "Never Give an Inch" staring Henry Fonda, Richard Jaekel, Lee Remick and Newman in the principle role. Without spoiling the movie I will say Newman's character faces possibly the worst work day in cinema history.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will check it out!

Starship Troopers.
I had a tough time staying in my seat. At one point, I actually found myself unconsciously trying to crawl up the back of my own theatre seat to escape the painful acting (in particular, the "let's all get tattos" dialogue).

I agree! The acting in that movie is terrible. But for me, Starship Troopers is one of those few films I both like and don't like at the same time; there were some great action scenes in the movie and some cool things, but also terrible things, like the acting. And here is a scene that I thought was funny in the movie: Who needs a knife in a nuke fight?
I liked Heinlein's novel, by the way.

 

[Bystander]

a lot of movie "classics" are such because of "cinematic innovation",

Suspect you've said more than a mouthful here.

a Brando film you could enjoy

The Young Lions, curiously enough; Faye Dunaway and Warren Beatty in Bonnie and Clyde exceeded my MDL(lifetime)R for FD. Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness, Col. Kurtz---John Voigt did that so much better in Anaconda, Eric Stoltz had the good sense to have his character in a coma through most of that movie.

 

[Klystron]

Thanks for the suggestion, I will check it out!

I agree! The acting in that movie is terrible. But for me, Starship Troopers is one of those few films I both like and don't like at the same time; there were some great action scenes in the movie and some cool things, but also terrible things, like the acting. And here is a scene that I thought was funny in the movie: Who needs a knife in a nuke fight?
I liked Heinlein's novel, by the way.

I learn something new every day on PF: The acting in ST is not the basic problem. Certainly Clancy Brown can carry a scene. Look at how the actors scurry around trying to find their mark; that is, to stand where the camera is going to point. From my limited experience blocking actors on stage, that indicates poor directing.

Clancy probably wants to voice Heinlein's memorable lines about an infiltrator with a knife besting a heavily armed sentry but has to follow the melange about pushing buttons when the eponymous Starships have voice-actuated controls, not push-buttons.

Also, dressy berets are worn off duty and not by boots (raw recruits). True that in the novel Zim breaks a recruit's wrist in training but only by accident. Zim publicly apologizes for the lapse. Heinlein expressly warns against assigning sadists as drill instructors, "they soon lose interest and slack off.".
So, ST an OK flick but no plan to view the sequel.

 

[member 656954]

I think Logan is a recently minted classic. Sophisticated, brutally honest, aggressively violent, it's a story of sacrifice and redemption, entirely unlike any of the X-Men films that came before.

The other sci-fi movie I think is a likewise recent classic is Watchmen. Entirely adult by design, with one of the best baddies in the genre (Matthew Goode as Adrian Veidt is a delight), this does not assume the audience is entirely comprised of 14 year old boys.

 

[pinball1970]

Starship Troopers.
I had a tough time staying in my seat. At one point, I actually found myself unconsciously trying to crawl up the back of my own theatre seat to escape the painful acting (in particular, the "let's all get tattos" dialogue).

It was the same thing I felt during Showgirls. It's the same feeling I get when reading a novice writer's first few attempts at serious writing.

I don't know why Verhoeven directs like this, but it's as if he is trying to make his audience uncomfortable - with a sort of mockery of cliches . To me, it comes across as insincere - he doesn't have the courage of his convictions. He directs as if the thinks you're "uncool" if you don't ironically appreciate truly bad directing.

I thought Starship troopers was totally tongue in cheek

 

[DaveC426913]

I thought Starship troopers was totally tongue in cheek

Yeah, upon reflection, I concluded that's what Verhoeven wanted it to be.

But it didn't wash with me. It reads analogous to someone deliberately dressing in bizarre contentious fashion, knowing others will mock him, but taking solace in the rationalization that he mocked himself first.

I see Verhoeven as not having had the courage of his convictions to put his money where his mouth is to tell a story he actually believes in.

Immature people go on about what they don't like, and how bad this or that is. It takes courage to put your beliefs on the line and say what you do like, and how you can inspire others to think that too. Verhoeven has an obligation, as a director, wielding a zillion dollar budget, to be courageous.

 

[gleem]

Re: Starship Troopers

OK you sucked me in. I ahve only seen parts of the movie and relegated it to B class si-fi never to think about it again until now.

From the Wikipedia article on the movie.

In his DVD commentary, Verhoeven stated his intentions clearly: the film's message is that "War makes fascists of us all". He evoked Nazi Germany's fashion, iconography, and propaganda because he saw it as a natural evolution of the United States after World War II, and especially after the Korean War. "I've heard this film nicknamed All Quiet on theFinal Frontier", he said, "which is actually not far from the truth." Edward Neumeier (who had previously worked with Verhoeven on RoboCop) broadly concurs, although he sees a satire on human history rather than solely the United States.[6] Verhoeven says his satirical use of irony and hyperbole is "playing with fascism or fascist imagery to point out certain aspects of American society... of course, the movie is about 'Let's all go to war and let's all die.'"

I guess he had a purpose.

 

[DaveC426913]

"I've heard this film nicknamed All Quiet on theFinal Frontier"

Around here, we call it "Melrose Space".

 

[mathwonk]

I don't know if anyone here would consider them enjoyable, but a few movies by Sergei Eisenstein feature such striking photography that they are considered classics and made a lasting visual impression on me, such as some scenes from Ivan the Terrible, and maybe Alexader Nevsky? But I myself didn't quite get his highly recognized Battleship Potemkin.

 

[bhusebye]

I enjoyed Bladerunner, Clints Spagetti Westerns, The Man with No Name, The Shootist, Star Wars, Soylent Green, The Music Man, Wizard of Oz (scared the crap out of me when I was 2), and some of the worst movies trying to be bad on purpose Space Truckers and Cabin Boy. I even liked Water World but I am into semi flaky SciFi/Fantasy

 

[Klystron]

I don't know if anyone here would consider them enjoyable, but a few movies by Sergei Eisenstein feature such striking photography that they are considered classics and made a lasting visual impression on me, such as some scenes from Ivan the Terrible, and maybe Alexader Nevsky? But I myself didn't quite get his highly recognized Battleship Potemkin.

I have seen (but not heard [pun]) "Battleship Potemkin" and "October" as part of a college film festival featuring Communist directors, mostly black-listed but a few Soviet. I actually preferred Warren Beatty's "Reds" about Jack Reed and Emma Goldman. Jack Nicholson is memorable as chronically wasted playwright Eugene O'Neill, calling out the upper-class elites pretending to slum with the 'Working Man' while living on rich allowances.

The film teachers helped explain the themes in Potemkin. I understand the concepts and the historical importance of the mutiny but cannot say I understand Eisenstein. I will try to view "Ivan the Terrible" and "Alexander Nevsky". Thanks.

 

[Bystander]

Battleship Potemkin.

concepts and the historical importance of the mutiny but cannot say I understand Eisenstein.

So, I'm not alone.

into semi flaky SciFi/Fantasy

 

[gleem]

So what makes a movie a classic? Here is one view.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/05/entertainment/movies-what-makes-a-classic/index.html
Like beauty, the eye of the beholder?

 

[DaveC426913]

Not a classic but I really enjoyed it. The Ballad of Buster Scruggs.
A film containing six shirt stories with a Western theme, but done by the Coen Brothers (O Brother Where Art Thou) with Tim Blake Nelson (Delmar "We thought you were a toad!" from OB,WAT).
Some vignettes are hilarious, some are dark. Some are very dark.

 

[member 656954]

Having recently seen Once Upon a Time ... in Hollywood, I am still wondering if Tarantino has crafted a classic or merely a movie about dudes doing stuff that we get to watch along with and then it ends.

Probably, classics are not classic immediately upon release, but this seems to qualify as a movie that is likely to totally escape the viewer!

 

[Michael Price]

If they wanted a John Wayne movie, newer than "the Searchers", I would suggest :"The Shootist", which is the only John Wayne movie I myself like, maybe because it also stars Lauren Bacall, Jimmy Stewart, Scatman Crothers, Harry Morgan, Ron Howard, as well as the tv stars Richard Boone, and Hugh O'Brian.

You didn't like, The man who shot Liberty Valence?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Shot_Liberty_Valance