My T-shirt and the Standard Model

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of a T-shirt displaying an equation resembling the Lagrangian of the Standard Model of particle physics. Participants explore the meanings of specific lines in the equation, the inclusion of various particles and concepts such as quarks, gluons, ghosts, and neutrino mass, as well as the implications of kinetic and interaction terms within the model.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants identify line 2 as a kinetic term related to the interactions of leptons and quarks, while line 4 is described as an interaction term involving the Higgs field.
  • There is mention of the necessity for the covariant derivative in the Lagrangian to maintain gauge invariance, with some participants elaborating on the coupling to gauge fields.
  • Yukawa couplings are discussed as a specific type of interaction term, with a distinction made regarding the role of spontaneous symmetry breaking (SSB) in the gauge sector versus its relation to Yukawa couplings.
  • Some participants assert that Fadeev-Popov ghosts and Higgs ghosts are not included in the Lagrangian, noting their relevance only in the context of gauge fixing.
  • Neutrinos are stated to be massless in the Standard Model, which is reiterated by multiple participants in response to queries about their inclusion.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their qualifications to engage in the discussion, acknowledging their novice status in the Standard Model while having expertise in Navier-Stokes and self-taught knowledge in quantum field theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretations of the kinetic and interaction terms, as well as the exclusion of ghosts and neutrino masses in the Standard Model. However, there are nuances in the explanations provided, and the discussion reflects varying levels of understanding among participants, indicating some disagreement on the implications of certain concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about participants' backgrounds and levels of understanding are present, which may affect the clarity of the discussion. The complexity of the terms and their implications may not be fully resolved, and the discussion includes multiple perspectives on the interpretation of the Lagrangian.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in particle physics, particularly those looking to understand the Standard Model and its components, as well as those exploring the nuances of theoretical physics and gauge theories.

mollwollfumble
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This T-shirt I bought at a physics conference displays the following equation. It looks like the Lagrangian of the Standard Model of particle physics but I only recognise lines 1 (electroweak) and 3 (Higgs mechanism). What are lines 2 and 4 and what is/isn't included? eg. are quarks, gluons, Fadeev-Popov ghosts and Higgs ghosts all included? What about neutrino mass?
ParticlePhysics_zpsvus9erah.jpg
 

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Line ##2## is a so-called kinetic term that describes the interaction of the different leptons and quarks amongst themselves. A kinetic term is a term with the derivative ##\partial## or the covariant derivative ##D##.

Line ##4## is a so-called interaction term that describes the interaction of the leptons and quarks with the Higgs field. Interaction terms add richness to the theory. In this case, spontaneous symmetry breaking occurs within the interaction terms.

Let me know if you'd like more details. I do not know your background, but I presume you are a newbie to the standard model of particle physics, so I have given a high-level overview without going into the details of what each term in lines ##2## and ##4## mean.

P.S.: Gluon self-interaction is the third term in line ##1##. Neutrinos are massless in the standard model.
 
Last edited:
highflyyer said:
Line ##2## is a so-called kinetic term that describes the interaction of the different leptons and quarks amongst themselves. A kinetic term is a term with the derivative ##\partial## or the covariant derivative ##D##.

It is worth pointing out that the derivative needs to be covariant in order for the Lagrangian to be gauge invariant. The covariant derivative also contains a coupling to the gauge fields, which gives the minimal coupling of the fermions to the gauge fields.

Line ##4## is a so-called interaction term that describes the interaction of the leptons and quarks with the Higgs field. Interaction terms add richness to the theory. In this case, spontaneous symmetry breaking occurs within the interaction terms.

I would add that this particular type of interaction term are Yukawa couplings. It would also be more appropriate to say that the spontaneous symmetry breaking occurs in the gauge sector and does not necessarily have anything to do with the Yukawa couplings to fermions. However, upon SSB, the Yukawa couplings give rise to mass terms for the fermions.

Let me know if you'd like more details. I do not know your background, but I presume you are a newbie to the standard model of particle physics, so I have given a high-level overview without going into the details of what each term in lines ##2## and ##4## mean.

This is what the thread level indicator is for. In this case the A would mean that the reader has an understanding of the topic at graduate student level or higher. I believe the OP has used it incorrectly. (It is supposed to reflect the OP's level of knowledge, not the level of the topic itself.)

P.S.: Gluon self-interaction is the third term in line ##1##. Neutrinos are massless in the standard model.

It is worth pointing out that the gauge part contains both kinetic and self-interaction terms for all gauge fields.

mollwollfumble said:
Fadeev-Popov ghosts and Higgs ghosts all included?
There are no ghosts included here. They appear once you look at gauge fixing and integrating out the redundant degrees of freedom that comes with gauge transformations.

mollwollfumble said:
What about neutrino mass?
Indeed, as stated in #2, there are no neutrino masses in the standard model and consequently not in your Lagrangian.
 
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Orodruin said:
It is worth pointing out that the derivative needs to be covariant in order for the Lagrangian to be gauge invariant. The covariant derivative also contains a coupling to the gauge fields, which gives the minimal coupling of the fermions to the gauge fields.
I would add that this particular type of interaction term are Yukawa couplings. It would also be more appropriate to say that the spontaneous symmetry breaking occurs in the gauge sector and does not necessarily have anything to do with the Yukawa couplings to fermions. However, upon SSB, the Yukawa couplings give rise to mass terms for the fermions.
This is what the thread level indicator is for. In this case the A would mean that the reader has an understanding of the topic at graduate student level or higher. I believe the OP has used it incorrectly. (It is supposed to reflect the OP's level of knowledge, not the level of the topic itself.)
It is worth pointing out that the gauge part contains both kinetic and self-interaction terms for all gauge fields.There are no ghosts included here. They appear once you look at gauge fixing and integrating out the redundant degrees of freedom that comes with gauge transformations.Indeed, as stated in #2, there are no neutrino masses in the standard model and consequently not in your Lagrangian.

Thank you for the clarification. I was not fully qualified to reply to the post.
 
Brilliant answers, both. Thank you.

> I do not know your background, but I presume you are a newbie to the standard model of particle physics, so I have given a high-level overview without going into the details of what each term means.

Yes, I'm a complete novice when it comes to the standard model, my expertise is Navier-Stokes and I'm self taught in quantum field theory.
 

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