Natural frequency of 3 coulomb force bound particles in EF

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling three identical particles influenced by an external field and determining their natural frequency and energy states. The original poster is exploring the potential energy equations related to both the external field and the interactions between particles, specifically in the context of Coulomb forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster considers whether to model the system as three masses connected by springs, questioning how to derive the stiffness from the forces involved. Some participants suggest calculating the energy relative to the ground state and exploring the phase space for eigenvalues and eigenvectors.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the modeling approach and the application of the Hessian matrix to find eigenvalues and eigenvectors. There is a focus on visualizing the eigenvectors in a six-dimensional space, with suggestions on how to represent them as displacement directions for the particles.

Contextual Notes

The original poster is uncertain about the appropriate level for their question and has received guidance to explore advanced concepts, including the Hessian matrix and phase space analysis.

Franky4
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Homework Statement


I was given a task to model (using Matlab) 3 identical particles in external field and find spectra of lowest system energy states using gradient descend method for each particle in the system.
I did a run of 500 random generated coordinates and found this distribution.
energy.jpg
LE_4.5529.jpg
(blue dots are final coordinates, red are initial)
Now I need to find natural frequency and vectors for the lowest energy state system of 4.5299 units in this case. Also find eigen vectors for different nodes.

Homework Equations


Potential due to external field: U(x,y) = x^3 + x^4 - 0.1*x + y^6 - x*y;
Potential due to interactions between particles: U(r1, r2) = a/(abs(r1 - r2)); a is a constant.

The Attempt at a Solution


I found plenty of information for systems with masses, springs and stiffness coefficients, but nothing for this and I am not sure which way to proceed. Should I be trying to think of this three particle bound system as three masses (charges in this case) connected with different springs (coulomb force) for which stiffness k should be calculated from the force by the gradient of external field and repulsion force between particles or am I overthinking this.

First time posting, not sure between introductory and advanced homework sections
 
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Franky4 said:
First time posting, not sure between introductory and advanced homework sections
Advanced is fine.

You can calculate the energy of the system (relative to the ground state) as function of the positions of the objects relative to the ground state (assuming small deviations). That gives a 6-dimensional phase space where you can find eigenvectors and eigenvalues corresponding to different oscillations.
 
Thanks. I had a talk with my teacher and told me to read up about Hessian matrix.
 
mfb said:
Advanced is fine.

You can calculate the energy of the system (relative to the ground state) as function of the positions of the objects relative to the ground state (assuming small deviations). That gives a 6-dimensional phase space where you can find eigenvectors and eigenvalues corresponding to different oscillations.

I calculated eigenvalues and eigenvectors of the Hessian matrix where F(x1,x2,x3,y1,y2,y3) { (xi, yi) being a pair of coordinates of the partcile} is a total potential energy of the system. I am asked to create a visual of different mode eigenvectors, but they are 6 dimensional, how am I to do this ?
 
You can draw them as displacement directions for the three particles - three arrows for each mode.
 

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