Measuring the natural frequency of a spring-mass system driving force

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The discussion focuses on determining the natural frequency and driving force amplitude of a spring-mass system using a driving force graph. Participants suggest methods for extracting the natural frequency, including analyzing phase lag and resonance frequency. The conversation highlights the challenges of working with a hand-drawn graph and the need for precise data to accurately compute values like amplitude and damping factor. Techniques for estimating the natural frequency from observed transients and steady-state behavior are discussed, emphasizing the importance of understanding the relationship between driving frequency and natural frequency. Overall, the thread illustrates the complexities of analyzing forced damped oscillations in a spring-mass system.
  • #31
EpselonZero said:
##-2e^{(-\gamma(7/2))} / -8e^{(-\gamma/2)}##

But what does that mean?

How you get ##Ae^{-\gamma(t+T/2)/2}##

I still not sure why only this part ##Ae^{-\gamma/2}##.

##Ae^{-\gamma/2}## = ?
Having obtained the graph of the transient, we can see it oscillates. That means it is underdamped, and alpha in the transient term ##x(t)=Ce^{-\alpha t}## will be complex. This means the transient can be written in the form of eqn 2.11 at the link:
##x(t)=e^{-\Gamma t/2}(c\cos(\omega t)+d\sin(\omega t))##, where ##\omega^2 = \omega_0^2+\Gamma^2/4##.
For our purposes, it is more convenient to write the amplitude as ##C^2=c^2+d^2##, i.e. ##x(t)=Ce^{-\Gamma t/2}(\sin(\omega t+\phi))##.
The graph starts heading down from the origin, so ##\phi=\pi##.
If we focus on the maxima and minima, the sin() will be taking values +1 and -1, and the magnitude is just ##Ce^{-\Gamma t/2}##.
If the period is ##T=\frac{2\pi}{\omega}## and there is a trough at time t0 then the next peak is at time ##t_0+T/2##.
##x(t_0)=-Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}##, ##x(t_0+T/2)=Ce^{-\Gamma (t_0+T/2)/2}=Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}e^{-\Gamma T/4}##.
So what is ##|\frac{x(t_0+T/2)}{x(t_0)}|##?
 
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  • #32
It occurred to me that having obtained approximate values for the various frequencies and amplitudes from my crude recreation of the transient, we could model it in a spreadsheet and tune them to get a really good reconstruction of the graph you started with.
So for the transient I plugged in:
- a period of 4 seconds
- a per cycle attenuation of 1/4 (i.e., each complete cycle reduces the amplitude by three quarters),
- an amplitude at one quarter cycle (t=1 second) of -8. (Making C negative meant I could drop the phase shift φ=π.)
and for the steady state portion:
- a period of 1 second
- an amplitude of 2.8 (roughly)
- a phase of 0 (i.e. just sin(wdt)).

With no tweaking at all, it produced:
1613092053044.png

Look familiar?
 
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  • #33
haruspex said:
So what is ##|\frac{x(t_0+T/2)}{x(t_0)}|##?

Even with all your explanation I don't know what is that.##x(t_0) = -Ce^{\Gamma t_0/2}##

If C is the amplitude (-8). Where's x at t=0. In my head at t=0 x = 0.

With the values above did you find ##\omega_0## ?
 
  • #34
EpselonZero said:
Even with all your explanation I don't know what is that.
Just plug in the expressions I gave for x(t0) and x(t0+T/2) in the preceding line.
EpselonZero said:
##x(t_0) = -Ce^{\Gamma t_0/2}##

If C is the amplitude (-8). Where's x at t=0. In my head at t=0 x = 0.

With the values above did you find ##\omega_0## ?
I defined t0 as the time of the first minimum. It is not t=0.
Yes, I found ##\omega_0##.
 
  • #35
haruspex said:
Just plug in the expressions I gave for x(t0) and x(t0+T/2) in the preceding line.

##\frac{C^e{-\Gamma t_0/2}e^{-\Gamma T/4}}{-Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}} = 4/-8##

##\Gamma = 0.69##

Like that?
 
  • #36
EpselonZero said:
##\frac{Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}e^{-\Gamma T/4}}{-Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}} = 4/-8##

##\Gamma = 0.69##

Like that?
Yes.
 
  • #37
So basically, ##\Gamma## is how the system decrease "speed"?
 
  • #38
EpselonZero said:
So basically, ##\Gamma## is how the system decrease "speed"?
It's how the transient dies away, allowing the period to be controlled by the driving force. It continues to affect the amplitude.
 
  • #39
I love you! Seriously big big thanks

one more thing if you want. ##A(\omega_d) = 2.8## is that correct?
 
  • #40
EpselonZero said:
I love you! Seriously big big thanks

one more thing if you want. ##A(\omega_d) = 2.8## is that correct?
That's how it looks on the graph you posted.
I encourage you to try to repeat the path I took: observe that the general equation is the sum of a decaying oscillation and a steady oscillation; deduce the steady oscillation parameters from the right hand part of the graph; subtract the equation for the steady part from the graph as a whole to reveal the transient oscillation; from the period and attenuation of the transient deduce its parameters; recreate the curve in a spreadsheet using the parameters calculated.
 

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