Measuring the natural frequency of a spring-mass system driving force

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around measuring the natural frequency of a spring-mass system in response to a driving force. Participants explore methods to determine the natural frequency and driving force amplitude using a graph of displacement over time, while also considering the implications of resonance frequency.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using the driving force graph to infer the natural frequency and question how to extract relevant data from it. There are inquiries about the relationship between driving frequency and natural frequency, as well as the possibility of estimating values from the graph alone.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing insights on how to analyze the graph and extract information about the natural frequency. Some have suggested methods for estimating values, while others express uncertainty about the data available and how to proceed without additional information.

Contextual Notes

Participants are limited to using a graph for their analysis, with no raw data available. There are concerns about the clarity of the graph and the presence of transients that may complicate the extraction of the natural frequency and other parameters.

  • #31
EpselonZero said:
##-2e^{(-\gamma(7/2))} / -8e^{(-\gamma/2)}##

But what does that mean?

How you get ##Ae^{-\gamma(t+T/2)/2}##

I still not sure why only this part ##Ae^{-\gamma/2}##.

##Ae^{-\gamma/2}## = ?
Having obtained the graph of the transient, we can see it oscillates. That means it is underdamped, and alpha in the transient term ##x(t)=Ce^{-\alpha t}## will be complex. This means the transient can be written in the form of eqn 2.11 at the link:
##x(t)=e^{-\Gamma t/2}(c\cos(\omega t)+d\sin(\omega t))##, where ##\omega^2 = \omega_0^2+\Gamma^2/4##.
For our purposes, it is more convenient to write the amplitude as ##C^2=c^2+d^2##, i.e. ##x(t)=Ce^{-\Gamma t/2}(\sin(\omega t+\phi))##.
The graph starts heading down from the origin, so ##\phi=\pi##.
If we focus on the maxima and minima, the sin() will be taking values +1 and -1, and the magnitude is just ##Ce^{-\Gamma t/2}##.
If the period is ##T=\frac{2\pi}{\omega}## and there is a trough at time t0 then the next peak is at time ##t_0+T/2##.
##x(t_0)=-Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}##, ##x(t_0+T/2)=Ce^{-\Gamma (t_0+T/2)/2}=Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}e^{-\Gamma T/4}##.
So what is ##|\frac{x(t_0+T/2)}{x(t_0)}|##?
 
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  • #32
It occurred to me that having obtained approximate values for the various frequencies and amplitudes from my crude recreation of the transient, we could model it in a spreadsheet and tune them to get a really good reconstruction of the graph you started with.
So for the transient I plugged in:
- a period of 4 seconds
- a per cycle attenuation of 1/4 (i.e., each complete cycle reduces the amplitude by three quarters),
- an amplitude at one quarter cycle (t=1 second) of -8. (Making C negative meant I could drop the phase shift φ=π.)
and for the steady state portion:
- a period of 1 second
- an amplitude of 2.8 (roughly)
- a phase of 0 (i.e. just sin(wdt)).

With no tweaking at all, it produced:
1613092053044.png

Look familiar?
 
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  • #33
haruspex said:
So what is ##|\frac{x(t_0+T/2)}{x(t_0)}|##?

Even with all your explanation I don't know what is that.##x(t_0) = -Ce^{\Gamma t_0/2}##

If C is the amplitude (-8). Where's x at t=0. In my head at t=0 x = 0.

With the values above did you find ##\omega_0## ?
 
  • #34
EpselonZero said:
Even with all your explanation I don't know what is that.
Just plug in the expressions I gave for x(t0) and x(t0+T/2) in the preceding line.
EpselonZero said:
##x(t_0) = -Ce^{\Gamma t_0/2}##

If C is the amplitude (-8). Where's x at t=0. In my head at t=0 x = 0.

With the values above did you find ##\omega_0## ?
I defined t0 as the time of the first minimum. It is not t=0.
Yes, I found ##\omega_0##.
 
  • #35
haruspex said:
Just plug in the expressions I gave for x(t0) and x(t0+T/2) in the preceding line.

##\frac{C^e{-\Gamma t_0/2}e^{-\Gamma T/4}}{-Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}} = 4/-8##

##\Gamma = 0.69##

Like that?
 
  • #36
EpselonZero said:
##\frac{Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}e^{-\Gamma T/4}}{-Ce^{-\Gamma t_0/2}} = 4/-8##

##\Gamma = 0.69##

Like that?
Yes.
 
  • #37
So basically, ##\Gamma## is how the system decrease "speed"?
 
  • #38
EpselonZero said:
So basically, ##\Gamma## is how the system decrease "speed"?
It's how the transient dies away, allowing the period to be controlled by the driving force. It continues to affect the amplitude.
 
  • #39
I love you! Seriously big big thanks

one more thing if you want. ##A(\omega_d) = 2.8## is that correct?
 
  • #40
EpselonZero said:
I love you! Seriously big big thanks

one more thing if you want. ##A(\omega_d) = 2.8## is that correct?
That's how it looks on the graph you posted.
I encourage you to try to repeat the path I took: observe that the general equation is the sum of a decaying oscillation and a steady oscillation; deduce the steady oscillation parameters from the right hand part of the graph; subtract the equation for the steady part from the graph as a whole to reveal the transient oscillation; from the period and attenuation of the transient deduce its parameters; recreate the curve in a spreadsheet using the parameters calculated.
 

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