Navier Stokes Eqn for const. density and viscosity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Navier-Stokes equations for fluids with constant density and viscosity. Participants seek clarification on the steps involved in the derivation, particularly regarding the transition between two equations presented in a lecture. The conversation includes technical explanations, challenges to the correctness of the equations, and inquiries about resources for further study in fluid mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests clarification on a skipped step in the derivation of the Navier-Stokes equations, specifically how one equation transitions to another.
  • Another participant explains that the first equation represents molecular stress, which includes pressure and viscous stress, and discusses the role of the identity matrix in this context.
  • Some participants assert that the first equation is incorrect, claiming that a divergence operator should be included in front of the pressure term.
  • There is a challenge regarding the dimensional consistency of the terms in the equations presented by Roger Rangel, with some participants suggesting that the derivation should yield different results.
  • Several participants recommend the book "Transport Phenomena" by Bird, Stewart, and Lightfoot as a resource for understanding the mathematics involved in fluid mechanics, noting its strengths and some unconventional aspects of its notation.
  • One participant expresses a desire for a comprehensive resource on fluid mechanics that covers more than just tensor notation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the correctness of the first equation and the necessity of including a divergence operator. There is no consensus on the validity of the equations presented, and multiple competing views remain regarding the derivation process.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the term "constant density" implies that density does not change due to pressure variations, but may still vary with temperature and volume effects. There are also mentions of unconventional sign conventions in the recommended textbook that may affect understanding.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in fluid mechanics, particularly those seeking clarification on the Navier-Stokes equations and recommendations for educational resources in the field.

Gohar Shoukat
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I was watching a lecture in which the professor derived the Navier Stokes Equations for const density and viscosity. He however skipped a step and directly went from one equation to another without giving any explanation. I have attached an image file in which the 2nd equation is derived from the first equation. Can anyone please explain how this came to be?
I apologize in advance for uploading a handwritten equation.

oh 'I' in the image below is the identity matrix
IMG_20150727_232544~2.jpg
 

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I think in equation one, sigma represents a molecular stress which is equivalent to a pressure (stress) plus a viscous stress. The pressure stress always exists in the fluid (I believe due to random motion of molecules, but can't remember precisely) but the viscous stress arises from velocity gradients. If you want more information on this, consult a transport textbook like Bird, Stewart and Lightfoot Ch 1.

The identity matrix (or sometimes the kronecker delta function is used) is required since pressure is defined as a perpendicular (normal to a surface) "stress" only. Also note that the viscous stress acts in an arbitrary direction, and it can then be decomposed into perpendicular and parallel (against a surface) components.

Then in equation two, we have a balance of forces, which the Navier-Stokes equation is, and he has that molecular stress term + gravity forces = mass*acceleration

The mass multiplied by acceleration is written in terms of density and often referred to as an "inertial" term. He then substitutes the molecular stresses into equation 2 from equation 1.

Also note he has neglected body forces in equation 2, and, as I understand it, the "constant" density strictly means that the density does not change due to pressure variations - it can still change due to temperature and volume effects.
 
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The first equation is incorrect. There should be a del in front of the P. This equation is supposed to give the divergence of the stress tensor. This is substituted into the general equation of motion (momentum balance equation) to yield your second equation (the NS equation).
 
Chestermiller said:
The first equation is incorrect. There should be a del in front of the P. This equation is supposed to give the divergence of the stress tensor. This is substituted into the general equation of motion (momentum balance equation) to yield your second equation (the NS equation).

This equation was given by Roger Rangel, the guy who teaches intro to fluid mechanics at UC Irvine and has online lectures available. Are you sure there is a mistake in this equation? and if yes, even then how do you reach on to the second equation
 
With all due respect to Roger Rangel, he's only human, and humans do make mistakes. Please don't hold it against him. What I'm surprised about is that you didn't catch this mistake yourself. In his equation, the term in question is not even dimensionally consistent with the other terms.

The two equations that were used to derive your two equations were:
$$\vec{σ}=-P\vec{I}+\vec{τ}\tag{1}$$
and
$$∇\centerdot \vec{σ}+ρ\vec{g}=ρ\vec{a}\tag{2}$$

Eqn. 1 expresses the stress tensor for a viscous fluid in terms of the isotropic pressure plus the deviatoric viscous stress tensor. Eqn. 2 is the momentum balance equation (aka, Equation of Motion). If you take the divergence of Eqn. 1, you get what Roger Rangel should have gotten. If you substitute Eqn. 1 into Eqn. 2, you get Roger's second equation.

Chet
 
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Chestermiller said:
With all due respect to Roger Rangel, he's only human, and humans do make mistakes. Please don't hold it against him. What I'm surprised about is that you didn't catch this mistake yourself. In his equation, the term in question is not even dimensionally consistent with the other terms.

The two equations that were used to derive your two equations were:
$$\vec{σ}=-P\vec{I}+\vec{τ}\tag{1}$$
and
$$∇\centerdot \vec{σ}+ρ\vec{g}=ρ\vec{a}\tag{2}$$

Eqn. 1 expresses the stress tensor for a viscous fluid in terms of the isotropic pressure plus the deviatoric viscous stress tensor. Eqn. 2 is the momentum balance equation (aka, Equation of Motion). If you take the divergence of Eqn. 1, you get what Roger Rangel should have gotten. If you substitute Eqn. 1 into Eqn. 2, you get Roger's second equation.

Chet

I want to polish up on the mathematics involved in Fluid Mechanics because I will be pursuing this field for some time to come now. however, I do not know of any good resource where I can learn the Mathematics involved in Fluid Mechanics. Can you please guide me? if there is a book which i can go over which has derivations of these formulae and explanations too would really help.
 
Gohar Shoukat said:
I want to polish up on the mathematics involved in Fluid Mechanics because I will be pursuing this field for some time to come now. however, I do not know of any good resource where I can learn the Mathematics involved in Fluid Mechanics. Can you please guide me? if there is a book which i can go over which has derivations of these formulae and explanations too would really help.
I like Bird, Stewart, and Lightfoot (BSL), Transport Phenomena. It has an excellent appendix on "dyadic tensor notation and manipulation" that I feel makes things much easier to follow. On the other hand, it uses an unconventional sign convention on stress, in which compressive stresses are positive and tensile stresses are negative. This is exactly the opposite of the version that you have been learning about. It is also opposite to the sign convention used throughout all of solid mechanics and most of fluid mechanics. The only other places I've seen their sign convention used is in the area of geophysical rock mechanics and biological tissue mechanics. You would think that all you would need to do is to think of it with all the signs flipped. But, psychologically its much more difficult than that. I liken it to trying to transpose music on the fly. It seems very simple also, since all you need to do is index all the notes by the same amount (until you actually have to do it). That being said, I still maintain that BSL is a wonderful book that has stood the test of time.

Chet
 
Chestermiller said:
Bird, Stewart, and Lightfoot
Does this book explain only the 'dyadic tensor notation and manipulation' or goes into the depth of fluid mechanics in general with excellent mathematical explanation? what i want is a book that i can use for Fluid Mechanics in general and not just a single topic.
 
Gohar Shoukat said:
Does this book explain only the 'dyadic tensor notation and manipulation' or goes into the depth of fluid mechanics in general with excellent mathematical explanation? what i want is a book that i can use for Fluid Mechanics in general and not just a single topic.
It has everything you want. It's great. It also covers heat transfer.
 

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