- #61
GeorginaS
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jackmell said:
Finally. The voice of sanity chimed in.
Needing Sincere Honesty from the men on Here
- Thread starter TR1KK1
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The discussion centers on the challenges faced by a woman who feels her boyfriend is insecure about her friendships with men. She expresses frustration over his belief that male friends only have ulterior motives, which leads to conflicts in their relationship. Participants in the thread emphasize that not all men are shallow or solely interested in sex, highlighting that genuine friendships can exist between men and women without romantic intentions. They suggest that the boyfriend's jealousy stems from his insecurities and that introducing him to her male friends could help alleviate his concerns. Some contributors argue that the woman's boyfriend may not be the right match for her if he cannot accept her friendships, while others advise her to communicate her commitment to him and establish clear boundaries with her friends. Overall, the conversation reflects on the complexities of trust and jealousy in relationships, particularly when one partner has a different perspective on friendships with the opposite sex.
Finally. The voice of sanity chimed in.
- #62
DaveC426913
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Evo said:
True, yes. But...
We weren't talking about cheating as strikes; jackmell was claiming to be on the lookout for any red flags, and each counts as a strike:
At least, that's what I read. Frankly, jackmell was very vague about it, using all manner of metaphors and euphamisms, but never actually saying what constitues a red flag or strike:
jackmell said:
So I say again:
jackmell seems to think of relationships as liabilities to be cut loose at the first opportunity. It doesn't seem to occur to him that - setting the stated issue aside for the moment - she really does like (love) the guy, and is otherwise very happy.
- #63
jackmell
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To me, strikes and red-flags are different.
Red-flags means something that is serious enough to be a deal-breaker like cheating, drinking too much, saying mean things, doing mean things, being lazy and not working, drugs, being possessive, suspicious, violent, inviting a third person in the relationship, lots of other things.
Strikes though, are just things a guys does that a girl doesn't like. Whatever it is it may or may not be enough to be significant but it's in general a disappointment to her. He may say something that hurts her feelings, he may be unreliable, may not sufficiently defend her when others are criticizing her, not want to do enough things or go places she likes, not woo her enough, not romance her enough, others things not bad enough to call it quits individually, but combined could do him in.
One red-flag, that's it. Strikes? Two, three? Depending on the girl, and if she's desperate, she'll usually forgive him for minor sins and take him back even with many strikes. Some girls never call their guy out even when he does serious wrong. Daddys warn your little girls: don't go easy on guys.
Oh yeah, I think relationships can be liabilities and sometimes are quite harmful and destructive: better to be alone than in an unhealthy one.
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- #64
TheStatutoryApe
- 296
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Wow... you know I do not think I have ever been in a relationship where my partner wasn't able to come up with some reason to be upset with me on a regular basis even if that meant dreaming it up out of thin air.jackmell said:
- #65
TR1KK1
TR1KK1 said:
Actually, I'm going to have to retract that statement as I have some guy friends that I'm sure would be "weirded out" by the thought, and the others would say "no" because they have significant others.
Mind you, that is a theory, and possibly wishful thinking as I am still very reluctant to believe that none of my guy friends, which are people I have grown to trust, shared hardships and good times with, and care for deeply, value our friendship in the same manner as I do.
- #66
DaveC426913
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TR1KK1 said:
Just for the record, and I think I speak for most men, a valuable friendship with someone one cares for deeply ... does not preclude a good roll in the hay...
- #67
Pengwuino
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So someone said relationships are all about compromise. Does he ever or would he cut out people from his life simply because you told him to? Good relationships can have 1 or 2 unfair compromises in their existence for the most part, but only when pretty much every other compromise is fair. So if he is the type of person who will sacrifice major things such as that just for you for no rational reason, then maybe this can be that 1 unfair compromise. Otherwise...
- #68
TR1KK1
DaveC426913 said:Yes, well, it does seem that TR1KK1 is having some doubts. (She's come to a Physics Forum for relationship advice. One might even say desparate...)
Haha, well... I don't have really any friends who are more mature and rational than I am. I was hoping to receive unbiased opinions made by intelligent people to help me sort this all out (not that I can truly judge who is intelligent on a forum, but I do make a point to read your thoughts and ideas on the other forums).
I seem to either be overly emotional when trying to come to solution (those emotions generally being frustration and anger), or so completely emotionally detached that the problem goes by the way-side.
I realize this is an issue that I do need to learn to deal with. After arguing so much about something him and I clearly disagree on for any extended period of time (this general topic has be a touchy subject from the day we started dating) I am emotionally fatigued.
We've made compromises about how he can feel comfortable in the relationship, but I am left disappointed in his thinking, but maybe he is correct...
- #69
turbo
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At some point, you will feel pretty constrained, I'm afraid. If you cannot have or associate with any male friends outside of his immediate supervision, you're probably not going to be happy, and he is STILL probably going to be distrustful. Can you see a future in that kind of situation? It's your call.TR1KK1 said:
- #70
DanP
- 114
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Again it's simple: negotiate all to a position where you feel comfortable, or forfeit. IMO centering a relationship on idealistic ideals like trust, respect and other big things is wrong anyway. It;s not like they are void of any value, but they are much more important when the relationship is going South then when all is well as and the partnership works great for both naturally.
TR1KK1 said:
It;s hard to tell because we don't have a clear picture what is happening there, and we also miss his point of view on all this.
But some issues are really mundane. Do you spend too much time with your friends and too little with him ? Do you take your friendships so far that you more or less regularly spend nights at your male friends places ? Do you refuse him time which you prefere to spend with your friends. Do you keep him away from your friends ? Think at simple things like this.
In such cases probably I would leave you. And not because I would not trust you. It's because you don't deliver in the partnership.
- #71
vela
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The fact that it's been a touchy subject from day one and that you're still arguing about it a few years later suggest to me that perhaps you two just aren't right for each other, at least right now. It sounds like you've tried to accommodate him, and it's making you very unhappy. It's often hard to give up on a relationship, but at some point, you have to concede it's not working.TR1KK1 said:
- #72
alt
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TR1KK1;
If your bf had a few close female friends and wanted to be with them independent of you, would you be OK with that ?
- #73
TR1KK1
alt said:
Had it been before he made the comment that guys only have girl friends so they can sleep with them, and he "knows" because "he's a guy", I would have been fine with it.
I don't have insecurity issues, I trust that he loves me and values our relationship and wouldn't cheat on me. To me the sex of a person holds no dominion over friendship, as I believe it's based on having similar interests and enjoying each others company. To him, however, it does, so at this point I wouldn't feel very comfortable if he started hanging out with the girls he used to before we dated now that I know how he feels about women, and their role to him.
If I didn't trust him 100% on that subject, I wouldn't be with him.
- #74
DanP
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TR1KK1 said:
You contradict yourself. It seems that you have issues of trust as well :P But you project your insecurities on his supposed perception of the world.
- #75
Office_Shredder
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He stated that if he had a girl friend, it would be for the purposes of sleeping with her. Why shouldn't she take his word on that? That's not trust issues, that's trusting what he said
- #76
DanP
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Office_Shredder said:
He has a girlfriend. Her :P Realize that, please.
- #77
Kevin9679
DanP said:
... So?
I agree. She's just trusting what he told her about guys' relations with girls.
- #78
DaveC426913
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Yeah, Dan. Gotta agree with Shredder and Kevin on this.
He has stated his view of girl friends (note that that is two words, not one). Taking him at his word is not a "trust issue".
- #79
DanP
- 114
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I guess I see the contradiction between:
and
Trust is trust. You either trust he won't cheat, which she states in first sentence, either you dont, which she states in the second. There is no middle way here. She is insecure, and what's worst, she seems to be insecure in the exact the same scenario she puts the guy through.
Besides, my point is, that even if he stated that " ... if he had a girl friend, it would be for the purposes of sleeping with her" this fact can not be used to gauge his cheating behavior. It may mean that he is with the OP for the sole purpose of having sex, but that's all IMO.
So yeah, if OP does not feels comfortable with him being alone with other women, she should not put him though the same situation. (i.e she being alone with man) She claims balance and trust , but few lines
after she goes on about how she would not feel comfortable in the same situation. Why the hell doe she expect him to feel comfortable with what she does ? Egoistic reasons, and perhaps a "holier than you" attitude ( see her reasoning about what she perceives as his image of women)
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- #80
jackmell
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Trust-smush. You can't. I mean you just can't. It shouldn't even be an issue unless you're young and naive. Lemme' put it more bluntly: the only men a girl can really trust fully is her dad and brother and sometimes not even them. So not granddad, not uncle, not step-dad (obviously), not husband, not boyfriend, and for sure that guy that does work on the house.
You just can't trust them. Now, she's gonna' learn that the easy way or she's gonna' learn that the hard way. Ask any woman older than 40 that's been with more than a few men if they trust guys. Some may not admit it because they don't want to be portrayed as man-haters but in private, many I believe would say no.
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- #81
DanP
- 114
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jackmell said:
Sexist to the bone.
- #82
jackmell
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DanP said:
I don't hate men. Just don't like what many do in relationships and having a daughter just makes it much, much worst. I'm not perfect either; never have been good swinging at fast-balls. The whole subject is one I'm interested in and so I've read a lot, seen a lot, and talked a lot about it. Many times the things I see are reprehensible. I'm jaded now.
- #83
WhoWee
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jackmell said:
At the same time, ask any woman who remarried over 40 if they trust their new partner and I suspect the results will be better. The step-dad results should also be better - over 40.
- #84
Office_Shredder
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DanP said:
But he isn't hanging out with any female friends because he doesn't want to cheat. There's no contradiction here. If he did start hanging out with them, then the trust would be gone, because he told her that if he has any female friends, it means he's trying to cheat on her.
The opposite is not true though; she says that she has male friends not for the purposes of sleeping with them
- #85
DanP
- 114
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Office_Shredder said:
That's bull. You have no idea why he would hang on with females, or if he wants to cheat or not.
- #86
DanP
- 114
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jackmell said:
Daughters are no angles either. Every women out there is someone's daughter :P
I like to say that men and women deserve each other. None is better than the other.
- #87
TR1KK1
DanP said:
Alright, let me try to clarify this for you. Had I been asked if I were comfortable with him hanging out with other girls prior to the day before I started this post I would have said, "Of course!" It would have truly made no difference to me.
The day before I started this post he said to me, "No guy would ever want to hang out with a girl, or would hang out with a girl unless they were trying to sleep with them."
So, if he were to hang out with other girls that would mean he was trying to cheat on me. I think that knowing your partner was done with you and trying to replace you while you were still in the picture would make any normal person feel a bit uncomfortable.
Now, I should clarify, let's say he wants to go golfing with a buddy and his friend brings maybe his girlfriend and one of her friend's; no problem, it's golf, not an orgy.
If he were to go to a party, bet there's going to be other girls there and due to knowing the type of girls around here (get some drinks in them and they're giving blowjobs to random guys in a park, type thing) I'm sure he'd at least get hit on; no problem, he's at a party having a good time with friends, not scouting out my replacement.
So, I have no problem with him being around other women, if you hadn't noticed, there's women EVERYWHERE! It's if he were to pursue develping a friendship with a woman now after he told me, speaking from his own expirience, a guy would never do that unless he was trying to screw her that would make me uncomfortable.
Holy crap, if I got upset about every woman that came closer than 10 ft from him, I'd probably be bald by now. haha
So, there is no double-standard here. I never said to him, "Yeah, well, all you men are good for is a hard dick and entertainment for the night." Then turn around and say, "Well, alright hun, I'm gunna go hang out with Nick. See you later."
- #88
DanP
- 114
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TR1KK1 said:
No, let me clarify something for you. You either trust him, either dont. You can't have both. At this moment it appears you don't trust him.
- #89
TR1KK1
TR1KK1 said:
I feel like I need to clarify; when I say "hang out" here, I'm meaning steady as in they are friends and do things together on a regular basis. Like I said, there's going to be situations where he'll have to hang out with a girl besides me.
- #90
DanP
- 114
- 1
TR1KK1 said:
The irony is, while you don't trust your boyfriend (who by your own admission loves you and you believe he would not cheat on you) because he said that man only hag with girls if they want to screw them, you have choose to ignore this when it comes to your male friends. You choose to believe that they are not so, they are good and immaculate.
So it seems when it comes to men, you choose to trust your men friends rather than your boyfriend.