Neglecting the mass of a spring

  • Thread starter Thread starter Calpalned
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Mass Spring
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the dynamics of a spring with mass and its implications for kinetic energy calculations. Key points include the distinction between the kinetic energy of the spring and the mass, with the spring's kinetic energy requiring integration due to varying speeds along its length. The mass moves at different velocities depending on its position relative to the spring's fixed end, leading to the conclusion that the spring's kinetic energy must account for these variations. The discussion clarifies that the force exerted by the spring is not constant, impacting the calculations of work and energy.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Hooke's Law and spring dynamics
  • Familiarity with kinetic energy equations and integration techniques
  • Knowledge of variable mass systems in physics
  • Basic principles of oscillatory motion and forces
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the integration of kinetic energy for variable mass systems
  • Learn about the dynamics of oscillating springs with mass
  • Explore advanced topics in classical mechanics, such as non-constant forces
  • Investigate the implications of mass distribution in oscillatory systems
USEFUL FOR

Students of physics, educators teaching mechanics, and anyone interested in the dynamics of oscillating systems involving mass and springs.

Calpalned
Messages
297
Reaction score
6

Homework Statement


Question.jpg


Homework Equations


See above

The Attempt at a Solution


This is the textbook's explanation...

Answer.png


1) Why does it say ##k_{speed} = K_{mass} +##... and not ##k_{total} =##...?

2) If force isn't constant, then work requires an integral, which in turn means that kinetic energy would require one too, right? An example is the KE for the spring.

3) If (2) is true, then why do we take the integral for the kinetic energy of the spring, but not for the mass? The only force on the mass in the horizontal direction is that of the spring, which isn't constant.

4) In the kinetic energy equation, why does the mass get ##v_0## but the spring gets ##v##? Doesn't the mass move at the same rate as the spring? The question statement indicates that "each point on the sring moves with a veolocity proportional to the distance..." Thus, when the spring is fully stretched, the mass moves at a veloctity ##v_0##. When the spring has half contracted, the speed reduces to ##\frac{v_0}{2}##

5) For the spring, we take the integral of ##v## with respect to ##dm## (presumably because that's what the hint says). I don't understand why it's ##dm## - mass doesn't change. Could we also get the same answer with ##m##, ##dv##?

Thank you so much!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
1) No particular reason. They mean the same thing as you.
2) "which in turn means" is not justified. Work is an integral. In simple cases that integral can be a simple product.
Kinetic energy is an integral if not all constituents move with the same speed.
3) see 2.
4) The spring doesn't get v. The little piece of the spring dm from x to x+dx from the fixed end gets speed v. And that v depends on x, hence the integral.
When the spring is fully stretched, nothing moves.
At all times during the oscillations, the left end of the spring has speed 0. The right end moves at speed v0 (that is NOT a constant! -- see the problem 68 problem statement ). And the halfway point at ##v_0\over 2##.
5) No. We integrate the contributions ##dK_{\rm spring} = {\tfrac 1 2} v(x)^2\; dm## of the small sections of the spring that all move at different speeds and have mass ##dm = {M_{\rm s}\over D}\; dx## when the spring length is D (also: not a constant in time !)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Calpalned
Calpalned said:
Why does it say kspeed
It doesn't, it says kspeed v0. I.e. the KE of the system when the mass is moving at speed v0.
Calpalned said:
The only force on the mass in the horizontal direction is that of the spring, which isn't constant.
The equation is for an instant in time. At any instant, the force is constant along the spring.

Note that where the problem statement says "Each point of the spring moves with a velocity proportional ..", that is part of the specification of the problem. It is not a general fact about oscillations of a spring with mass. More generally, there may be vibrations within the spring.
 

Similar threads

Replies
29
Views
3K
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
3K
  • · Replies 56 ·
2
Replies
56
Views
4K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
24
Views
4K
Replies
6
Views
986
Replies
3
Views
1K