New Orleans disaster predicted in 2001

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Ivan Seeking said:
This is why you don't fight a war with the national gaurd.

You know, if every able-bodied young person who supports the war in Iraq actually enlisted in the Army, there'd be no reason why Bush would have sent the NG.

I used to think it's ironic that Bush dodged the draft in Vietnam by joining the NG, then sent the NG off to die in a foreign war. Now it's doubly ironic that by doing so American civilians are dying.
 
edward said:
I talked to a man this morning who has a trucking company. He told me that he contracts to FEMA during emergencies. He also told me that he has had 50 empty trucks waiting since Tuesday morning. FEMA has not yet called?? :mad:
It most likely has to do with where he is located. They will contact companies in the most strategic locations first, if they are needed. Just because he's on the list doesn't mean he'll be used.
 
Evo said:
It most likely has to do with where he is located. They will contact companies in the most strategic locations first, if they are needed. Just because he's on the list doesn't mean he'll be used.

Actually there are reports all over of doctors, people with trucks full of bottled water, etc. not being allowed to get even close to NOLA. FEMA's blocking the way.
 
TRCSF said:
Actually there are reports all over of doctors, people with trucks full of bottled water, etc. not being allowed to get even close to NOLA. FEMA's blocking the way.
Until they get the situation safely under control, that would make sense.
 
Evo said:
It most likely has to do with where he is located.

Brown didn't even know about he people dying at the convention center until yesterday.

Funny...I did.

Sheriffs from Alabama responding directly to pleas for help from NO for personnel to help regain control of the city, and towing a trailer full of supplies, were turned back due to confusion with paperwork.
 
kat said:
Uhh...I could swear I typed M-A-N-D-A-T-O-R-Y...
BUT I'm sure it's an honest mistake for you to have not noticed that.
:smile: :smile: :smile: That's priceless. What the hell do you think they have been trying to do since the hurricane warning was announced? The ones left behind are mainly the poor who did not own any transport to leave in. Walking the equivalent of the breath of England isn't a viable option.

The other problem which tourists also suffered from was they had nowhere to go. That is one of the issues at the moment, only a few are stuck on the tops of roofs, most are on dry land and easily accessible such as I 10 but finding somewhere to evacuate them to is the problem.

It would appear other states are not exactly jumping forward with offers to house, clothe and feed a few hundred thousand poor, black refugees from the affected states. At the moment many are simply being moved from the statium in NO to stadii in other cities.
 
Art said:
What the hell do you think they have been trying to do since the hurricane warning was announced? The ones left behind are mainly the poor who did not own any transport to leave in. Walking the equivalent of the breath of England isn't a viable option.

QUOTE]

You know, a guy in the other thread suggested that. They should have just walked out before the hurricane.

I think people are spinning so hard they're getting dizzy and falling down and bumping their heads.
 
The problim is that the mayor had no way of getting the poor out of the city before the hurricane.
This is because of two reasons:
1. They had little warning, they knew it was coming saturday, it hit early monday.
2. They had no previous plan to buss everyone out/have enough food-water on hand to feed everyone in emergency shelteres.
Here is a picture of busses that could've been used to evacuate those who couldn't afford it out of new orleans:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

There are also two things that should have been done differently after the fact

1. Drop 8000 or so natl. guard in immediatly after it was clear, along with enough food to feed every one in the city for 2 weeks.
2. begin bussing people out the day after the national guard has control of the city.

there is one thing that needs to be done now:

1. Not even rebuild new orleans, because if you have to build leeves and pump out water to keep out the water under normal circumstances, then you will never be ready for a hurricane, no matter what.



Thursday, 2:55 p.m.

By Bill Walsh
Washington bureau

WASHINGTON - House Speaker Dennis Hastert dropped a bombshell on flood-ravaged New Orleans on Thursday by suggesting that it isn’t sensible to rebuild the city.

"It doesn't make sense to me," Hastert told the Daily Herald in suburban Chicago in editions published today. "And it's a question that certainly we should ask."

Hastert's comments came as Congress cut short its summer recess and raced back to Washington to take up an emergency aid package expected to be $10 billion or more. Details of the legislation are still emerging, but it is expected to target critical items such as buses to evacuate the city, reinforcing existing flood protection and providing food and shelter for a growing population of refugees.

The Illinois Republican’s comments drew an immediate rebuke from Louisiana officials.

“That’s like saying we should shut down Los Angeles because it’s built in an earthquake zone,” former Sen. John Breaux, D-La., said. “Or like saying that after the Great Chicago fire of 1871, the U.S. government should have just abandoned the city.”

Hastert said that he supports an emergency bailout, but raised questions about a long-term rebuilding effort. As the most powerful voice in the Republican-controlled House, Hastert is in a position to block any legislation that he opposes.

"We help replace, we help relieve disaster," Hastert said. "But I think federal insurance and everything that goes along with it... we ought to take a second look at that."

The speaker’s comments were in stark contrast to those delivered by President Bush during an appearance this morning on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

“I want the people of New Orleans to know that after rescuing them and stabilizing the situation, there will be plans in place to help this great city get back on its feet,” Bush said. “There is no doubt in my mind that New Orleans is going to rise up again as a great city.”

Insurance industry executives estimated that claims from the storm could range up to $19 billion. Rebuilding the city, which is more than 80 percent submerged, could cost tens of billions of dollars more, experts projected.

Hastert questioned the wisdom of rebuilding a city below sea level that will continue to be in the path of powerful hurricanes.

"You know we build Los Angeles and San Francisco on top of earthquake issures and they rebuild, too. Stubbornness," he said.

Hastert wasn't the only one questioning the rebuilding of New Orleans. The Waterbury, Conn., Republican-American newspaper wrote an editorial Wednesday entitled, "Is New Orleans worth reclaiming?"

"Americans' hearts go out to the people in Katrina's path," it said. "But if the people of New Orleans and other low-lying areas insist on living in harm's way, they ought to accept responsibility for what happens to them and their property."


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Pic of neworleans http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/126535main_neworleans_flood_0831.jpg



What i find to be crazy is the fact that many liberals are blaming the hurricane on Bush.
Link -> http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46059
And that others are calling Bush a racist.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/D8CCAOI81.html


Of course, i do think that things can and should've been done differently:
For example
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/D8CC9VLGE.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46113
However, it is not bush's job to be the fema director.

But, in the wake of such disasters we seldom care to see the good that happens:
http://www.local6.com/news/4929516/detail.html
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/nation/12530764.htm
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=FT&Date=20050902&ID=5083504



Fibonacci
 
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Whether or not to rebuild New Orleans is a complicated issue. That's really something to worry about in the long term. Personally, I don't think it should be rebuild below sea level. But I don't see why it can't be rebuilt on fill. A good portion of Seattle is actually build on fill.
 
For a good look at what FEMA is supposed to do click on the link.
Inside the link at the top is an MS power point presentation about FEMA.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...May01.ppt+Fema+transportation+contracts&hl=en

FEMA has contracts with numerous companies to preposition water, ice, and emergency power production units. It appears that they must have prepositioned the water in locations that were not accessible after the hurricane. There is no other reason to explain the lack of water at the Superdome.

FEMA is now under homeland security and they seem to be tripping over each other.
 
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kat said:
My apologies...I should have said "appealed" in my first post as it would be a little misleading to suggest that the president can force the state to relinqiush it's rights. So again I'll ask you, WHY would the President of the United States have to give a personal APPEAL to the Governor to start a mandatory evacuation?!
Now now Kat please don't try to obfuscate, here is what you actually said
kat said:
when Bush first called and insisted the governor call a state of emergency ahead of the storm.
So what you should have said is that you were wrong as the governer had already declared a state of emergency two days prior to your Bush ref. But then that would mean you admitting you were in error. :rolleyes:
Even so, Friday, three days before hurricane Katrina pounded the Gulf Coast, Gov. Kathleen Blanco declared a state of emergency,
http://w115.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46073
 
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TRCSF said:
Whether or not to rebuild New Orleans is a complicated issue. That's really something to worry about in the long term. Personally, I don't think it should be rebuild below sea level. But I don't see why it can't be rebuilt on fill. A good portion of Seattle is actually build on fill.

They should build New Orleans like they did Venice...tons of tourism that way.
 
Art said:
:smile: :smile: :smile: That's priceless. What the hell do you think they have been trying to do since the hurricane warning was announced? The ones left behind are mainly the poor who did not own any transport to leave in. Walking the equivalent of the breath of England isn't a viable option.
http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/library-88/1125213019249320.xml?nola
"By mid-afternoon, officials in Plaquemines, St. Bernard, St. Charles, Lafourche, Terrebonne and Jefferson parishes had called for voluntary or mandatory evacuations.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin followed at 5 p.m., issuing a voluntary evacuation.

Nagin said late Saturday that he's having his legal staff look into whether he can order a mandatory evacuation of the city, a step he's been hesitant to do because of potential liability on the part of the city for closing hotels and other businesses........Contraflow in effect

State Police activated the state's redesigned contraflow plan Saturday at 4 p.m., allowing traffic to use both sides of Interstates 55, 59 and 10 to evacuate New Orleans to the north, east and west after early afternoon traffic left westbound lanes of I-10 backed up bumper-to-bumper for miles in the 93-degree heat. Within hours, however, the contraflow system seemed to have alleviated much of the logjam.


furthermore:http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

"The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles.
School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles
provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation
for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in
evacuating."
Note the photo I posted and posted in the post above showing the buses still parked and not used for evacuations.


http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/newsrelated/hurripamends.htm
A partial summary of action plans follows...

State resources are adequate to operate shelters for the first 3-5 days. The group planned how federal and other resources will replenish supplies at shelters.
 
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Events in Clusters: Decontaminating Flood Waters

The New Orleans hurricane Katrina should come as no surprise. Starting with the 2004 hurricane, a new cluster trend appeared on the radar. Between '04 and '05, I recall three or four Cat 4 to Cat 5 hurricanes that headed up the gulf towards the Florida panhandle, Louisiana, and Missippi coasts. It appeared to establish a cluster affect, as well as a cluster increase in total Carribean storms. It was only a matter of time and chance that a major city like NO would take a hit. NO experts also knew the levies could not withstand beyond a CAT 3. As such, NO had requested Army Core Engineers to reinforce the levies.

Now that the levies have breached and flooded, I can't understand why no news sources has suggested adding a "bleach decontaminent" to the flooded city water. It would help to reduce spread of disease. Also, I would HOPE that a decontaminant is added to that water before pumping it out to the river and/or sea. That is a lot of bacteria to pump out untreated.
 
Kerrie said:
They should build New Orleans like they did Venice...tons of tourism that way.
I was just thinking of something similar. Would be terribly expensive to build foundations on swampland that would withstand more hurricanes. And I don't believe we have seen the last of them.

I am not a climatologist but after listening to a few I have learned two things about hurricanes.

1. The frequency of hurricanes runs in cycles and we are in an increased cycle.

2. Hurricanes gain strength in warm water. The warmer the water the greater potential for a strong hurricane.
 
Skyhunter said:
I was wondering where Dick Cheney was.

From the way this has been handled, no wonder there is an insurgency in Iraq!

let's wait and give them a chance before we pounce on them just because they're halliburton.
 
Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'

CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:

NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09) [continued]
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/
 
This is from one year ago:

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/091904ccktWWLIvanFlaws.132602486.html
 
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Trent Lott is outraged over the criticism of the reponse. This is not the time, he complains. I say now more than ever is exactly the time to require an accounting. [edit] Perhaps he would prefer that we all just listen to him tell us what a wonderful job is being done.

Unless we're interrupting his debris removal efforts, I don't see the problem. It seems like he is more concerned about appearances than the outrage and suffering. And if he's not fending off criticism, he's busy congratulating everyone on what a great job they're doing.

Who does he think is listening? The rescue workers?
 
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Ivan Seeking said:
Trent Lott is outraged over the criticism of the reponse. This is not the time, he complains. I say now more than ever is exactly the time to require an accounting. [edit] Perhaps he would prefer that we all just listen to him tell us what a wonderful job is being done.

I have to wonder, if we had the kind of reporting out of Baghdad that we have out of New Orleans, if we'd see more criticism of the government on that issue as well.

As I understand it, there have been no decent water purification facilities for over a year, bodies decomposing in the streets, rubble, regular violence, ... In short, the same sorts of conditions that we've seen in New Orleans over the past week.

I couldn't believe Bush referred to the destruction in New Orleans as similar to what a massive weapon might do. The 'man' has no shame.

Kicking off a day-long visit to Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana, President Bush expressed astonishment at the destruction, saying: "It's as if the entire Gulf Coast were obliterated by the worst kind of weapon you can imagine."

http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=119671&region=4

Please do not respond to this post. It is straying off topic
 
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pattylou said:
I couldn't believe Bush referred to the destruction in New Orleans as similar to what a massive weapon might do. The 'man' has no shame.

Please do not respond to this post. It is straying off topic


Why is it so bad to say something like that?
What do you suggest he compare it to instead?

Fibonacci

sorry, i responded.
 
TRCSF said:
Oh, guess who got the big contract.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685

Now we know why Americans are dying of dehydration.

There's no-bid contracts to sign.
Did anyone actually read the article? It says Haliburton, as a result of a 2004 contract, will be working on Naval Bases. :rolleyes:

What has that got to do with anything? :confused:

"KBR was assigned the work under a "construction capabilities" contract awarded in 2004 after a competitive bidding process."
 
Here's another gem.

President Bush flew over the ravaged city and parts of Mississippi's hurricane-blasted coastline in Air Force One. Turning to his aides, he said: "It's totally wiped out. ... It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground."

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/08/31/D8CB3CF81.html
 
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pattylou said:
I have to wonder, if we had the kind of reporting out of Baghdad that we have out of New Orleans, if we'd see more criticism of the government on that issue as well.

As I understand it, there have been no decent water purification facilities for over a year, bodies decomposing in the streets, rubble, regular violence, ... In short, the same sorts of conditions that we've seen in New Orleans over the past week.

Sorry to respond as well, but when a thread is this long, it will go off-topic. As Vanesch points out, as long as this is part of the natural evolution of a discussion, let it be.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that it is the duty of the cities themselves to provide for their own cleanliness. Trash removal, sewer maintenance, water purification, peacefulness - these are all municipal responsibities, not federal ones. So unless you meant to imply that seeing more coverage would incite increased criticism of the New Orleans municipal government, I don't see how these things apply.
 
loseyourname said:
Trash removal, sewer maintenance, water purification, peacefulness - these are all municipal responsibities, not federal ones.
Under normal circumstances, yes. The devastation from Katrina and the subsequent flood is not normal. Most cities require assistance from beyond their borders, especially when people have evacutated.

Cities (and counties), states, and the federal government need to sit down at some point and decide all the issues regarding emergency response and management. The kind of disaster that just happened will happen again, possibly even this year, along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts.
 

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