New Orleans disaster predicted in 2001

[TRCSF]

I don't mean lost as in lost the vote politically.

I mean lost as in the city has been destroyed. Just look at what's happened to this country since Bush took office.

Yes, Louisiana has had plans for this disaster. The federal government took over Louisiana's handling of the disaster last friday. They've been the ones in charge.

And if you listen to what the governor and mayor have been saying, the Federal Goverment has completely and utterly bungled the operation.

 

[kat]

The Louisiana governor was calling for mandatory evacuations while Bush was still enjoying his month long vacation in a luxury resort in Rancho Cucamonga, eating cake and pretending to play guitar.

What you're trying to do is shirk responsibility for this utter failure from the President of the United States to other people, despite obvious evidence that it's the president who f*cked up.

So who is it that's talking out of what?

"Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called andhttp://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL082805catastrophe.f4dd3f.html for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. "

Then why...did...the president... have to call and "personally appeal" the governor to start a mandatory evacuation?

 

[kat]

I don't mean lost as in lost the vote politically.

I mean lost as in the city has been destroyed. Just look at what's happened to this country since Bush took office.

Yes, Louisiana has had plans for this disaster. The federal government took over Louisiana's handling of the disaster last friday. They've been the ones in charge.

And if you listen to what the governor and mayor have been saying, the Federal Goverment has completely and utterly bungled the operation.

Why don't you read...the...executive order...and then think about why someone might want to shift the blame someone else when they've failed to do their own job.

 

[Art]

And here's FEMAs responsibilities:

The Federal Emergency Management Agency or FEMA is an agency of the United States government dedicated to swift response in the event of disasters, both natural and man-made.

FEMA coordinates the work of federal, state, and local agencies in responding to floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. FEMA provides financial assistance to individuals and governments to rebuild homes, businesses, and public facilities; trains firefighters and emergency medical professionals; and funds emergency planning throughout the United States and its territories.

FEMA also has responsibilities in the event of nuclear power plant severe accidents. [1] [2]

FEMA has responsibilities in what it defines as four domains of emergency management:

Mitigation: Reducing the severity or likelihood of the hazard.
Preparedness: Ensuring you have the capability to respond to the hazard.
Response: Immediate actions taken to save lives, property, the environment, and the economy.
Recovery: Subsequent actions taken to restore property, jobs, and services.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMA
So out of the four domains which it defines as it's areas of responsibility it would seem to have failed miserably at the first 3 so far.

 

[Skyhunter]

"Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called andhttp://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL082805catastrophe.f4dd3f.html for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. "

Then why...did...the president... have to call and "personally appeal" the governor to start a mandatory evacuation?

Talk about out of context.

time of the article

10:59 AM CDT on Sunday, August 28, 2005

from the same article

She said Interstate 10, which was converted Saturday so that all lanes headed one-way out of town, was total gridlock.

The evacuation was underway while they are doing the interview. She wasn't saying he told her to order a mandatory evacuation, she was saying that the president himself was appealing to people to get the hell out of there!

Would you guys give it a rest.

There is plenty of blame to go around. In the words of Harry Truman, if your listening George, "the buck stops here!"

 

[Art]

"Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called andhttp://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWL082805catastrophe.f4dd3f.html for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. "

Then why...did...the president... have to call and "personally appeal" the governor to start a mandatory evacuation?

I presume it is an honest mistake that you didn't notice his appeal came after the evacuation had begun.

 

[kat]

I presume it is an honest mistake that you didn't notice his appeal came after the evacuation had begun.

Uhh...I could swear I typed M-A-N-D-A-T-O-R-Y...
BUT I'm sure it's an honest mistake for you to have not noticed that. :yuck:

 

[TRCSF]

Just a reminder.

It wasn't Gov. Blanco or Mayor Nagin who shipped several thouand Louisiana National Guardsmen overseas.

It wasn't Gov. Blanco or Mayor Nagin who cut tens of millions from the levees and emergency response coffers.

It wasn't Gov. Blanco or Mayor Nagin who gutted FEMA.

It wasn't Gov. Blanco or Mayor Nagin who said, tuesday, that there was way to predict that the levees could fail.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

And it wasn't the governers who sent half of the national gaurd equipment overseas.

Earlier this month the Louisiana National Guard publicly complained that too much of its equipment was in Iraq. The local ABC news affiliate reported dozens of high water vehicles, Humvees, refuelers and generators are now abroad. Other states are facing shortfalls as well when facing fires, floods or other disasters. A few months before summer began, Montana's governor called for that state's National Guard to be brought home from Iraq because of possible wildfires. As is the case with Louisiana's Guard, Montana found that critical equipment was overseas in Iraq. This included the bulk of the Guard's helicopters which are critical in shuttling fire crews and equipment to blazes.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/30/1354257

This is a betrayal of the nation of the highest order.

 

[TRCSF]

This is a betrayal of the nation of the highest order.

Bush let his own people drown.

 

[edward]

And here's FEMAs responsibilities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMA
So out of the four domains which it defines as it's areas of responsibility it would seem to have failed miserably at the first 3 so far.

I talked to a man this morning who has a trucking company. He told me that he contracts to FEMA during emergencies. He also told me that he has had 50 empty trucks waiting since Tuesday morning. FEMA has not yet called??

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The head of FEMA was doing interviews day and night for the last two days. Then, last night an outraged Mayor of NO demanded that he didn't want't to see any more interviews on TV until people stop dying in the streets.

This morning there was a spokesman speaking on behalf of the FEMA jerk.

I was wondering if he didn't have something better to do than tell lies on TV. Whiile dead people were being eaten by rats in the streets, and the elderly and incapacitated were drowning in their attics, Mike Brown was shining his face and covering his and Bush's butts on TV.

 

[Manchot]

Uhh...I could swear I typed M-A-N-D-A-T-O-R-Y...
BUT I'm sure it's an honest mistake for you to have not noticed that. :yuck:

The fact that Bush asked for a mandatory evacuation is completely irrelevant. There were more people evacuating voluntarily than the thoroughfares could handle, which is why there were people who wanted to evacuate but couldn't. Forcing people to do so did not change that fact. After the storm hit, and the flooding started, pretty much everyone wanted to leave.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Many people described their attempts to get out on bumper to bumper highways, and many feared getting trapped on bridges when the storm hit. Many had no cars or transportation, and others are too ignorant to understand what was going to happen. Others had no money and nowhere to go.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Bush let his own people drown.

This is why you don't fight a war with the national gaurd. Bush's double ended candle called Iraq has burned down from both ends.

I wonder if Bush supporters are finally beginning to understand the utter hatred that many of us have for this man; his many lies and games.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

We had better pray to God that we don't have another disaster or major terrorist attack.

 

[TRCSF]

This is why you don't fight a war with the national gaurd.

You know, if every able-bodied young person who supports the war in Iraq actually enlisted in the Army, there'd be no reason why Bush would have sent the NG.

I used to think it's ironic that Bush dodged the draft in Vietnam by joining the NG, then sent the NG off to die in a foreign war. Now it's doubly ironic that by doing so American civilians are dying.

 

[Evo]

I talked to a man this morning who has a trucking company. He told me that he contracts to FEMA during emergencies. He also told me that he has had 50 empty trucks waiting since Tuesday morning. FEMA has not yet called??

It most likely has to do with where he is located. They will contact companies in the most strategic locations first, if they are needed. Just because he's on the list doesn't mean he'll be used.

 

[TRCSF]

It most likely has to do with where he is located. They will contact companies in the most strategic locations first, if they are needed. Just because he's on the list doesn't mean he'll be used.

Actually there are reports all over of doctors, people with trucks full of bottled water, etc. not being allowed to get even close to NOLA. FEMA's blocking the way.

 

[Evo]

Actually there are reports all over of doctors, people with trucks full of bottled water, etc. not being allowed to get even close to NOLA. FEMA's blocking the way.

Until they get the situation safely under control, that would make sense.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It most likely has to do with where he is located.

Brown didn't even know about he people dying at the convention center until yesterday.

Funny...I did.

Sheriffs from Alabama responding directly to pleas for help from NO for personnel to help regain control of the city, and towing a trailer full of supplies, were turned back due to confusion with paperwork.

 

[Art]

Uhh...I could swear I typed M-A-N-D-A-T-O-R-Y...
BUT I'm sure it's an honest mistake for you to have not noticed that. :yuck:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That's priceless. What the hell do you think they have been trying to do since the hurricane warning was announced? The ones left behind are mainly the poor who did not own any transport to leave in. Walking the equivalent of the breath of England isn't a viable option.

The other problem which tourists also suffered from was they had nowhere to go. That is one of the issues at the moment, only a few are stuck on the tops of roofs, most are on dry land and easily accessible such as I 10 but finding somewhere to evacuate them to is the problem.

It would appear other states are not exactly jumping forward with offers to house, clothe and feed a few hundred thousand poor, black refugees from the affected states. At the moment many are simply being moved from the statium in NO to stadii in other cities.

 

[TRCSF]

Oh, guess who got the big contract.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685

Now we know why Americans are dying of dehydration.

There's no-bid contracts to sign.

 

[TRCSF]

What the hell do you think they have been trying to do since the hurricane warning was announced? The ones left behind are mainly the poor who did not own any transport to leave in. Walking the equivalent of the breath of England isn't a viable option.

QUOTE]

You know, a guy in the other thread suggested that. They should have just walked out before the hurricane.

I think people are spinning so hard they're getting dizzy and falling down and bumping their heads.

 

[1123581321]

The problim is that the mayor had no way of getting the poor out of the city before the hurricane.
This is because of two reasons:
1. They had little warning, they knew it was coming saturday, it hit early monday.
2. They had no previous plan to buss everyone out/have enough food-water on hand to feed everyone in emergency shelteres.
Here is a picture of busses that could've been used to evacuate those who couldn't afford it out of new orleans:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

There are also two things that should have been done differently after the fact

1. Drop 8000 or so natl. guard in immediatly after it was clear, along with enough food to feed every one in the city for 2 weeks.
2. begin bussing people out the day after the national guard has control of the city.

there is one thing that needs to be done now:

1. Not even rebuild new orleans, because if you have to build leeves and pump out water to keep out the water under normal circumstances, then you will never be ready for a hurricane, no matter what.

Thursday, 2:55 p.m.

By Bill Walsh
Washington bureau

WASHINGTON - House Speaker Dennis Hastert dropped a bombshell on flood-ravaged New Orleans on Thursday by suggesting that it isn’t sensible to rebuild the city.

"It doesn't make sense to me," Hastert told the Daily Herald in suburban Chicago in editions published today. "And it's a question that certainly we should ask."

Hastert's comments came as Congress cut short its summer recess and raced back to Washington to take up an emergency aid package expected to be $10 billion or more. Details of the legislation are still emerging, but it is expected to target critical items such as buses to evacuate the city, reinforcing existing flood protection and providing food and shelter for a growing population of refugees.

The Illinois Republican’s comments drew an immediate rebuke from Louisiana officials.

“That’s like saying we should shut down Los Angeles because it’s built in an earthquake zone,” former Sen. John Breaux, D-La., said. “Or like saying that after the Great Chicago fire of 1871, the U.S. government should have just abandoned the city.”

Hastert said that he supports an emergency bailout, but raised questions about a long-term rebuilding effort. As the most powerful voice in the Republican-controlled House, Hastert is in a position to block any legislation that he opposes.

"We help replace, we help relieve disaster," Hastert said. "But I think federal insurance and everything that goes along with it... we ought to take a second look at that."

The speaker’s comments were in stark contrast to those delivered by President Bush during an appearance this morning on ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

“I want the people of New Orleans to know that after rescuing them and stabilizing the situation, there will be plans in place to help this great city get back on its feet,” Bush said. “There is no doubt in my mind that New Orleans is going to rise up again as a great city.”

Insurance industry executives estimated that claims from the storm could range up to $19 billion. Rebuilding the city, which is more than 80 percent submerged, could cost tens of billions of dollars more, experts projected.

Hastert questioned the wisdom of rebuilding a city below sea level that will continue to be in the path of powerful hurricanes.

"You know we build Los Angeles and San Francisco on top of earthquake issures and they rebuild, too. Stubbornness," he said.

Hastert wasn't the only one questioning the rebuilding of New Orleans. The Waterbury, Conn., Republican-American newspaper wrote an editorial Wednesday entitled, "Is New Orleans worth reclaiming?"

"Americans' hearts go out to the people in Katrina's path," it said. "But if the people of New Orleans and other low-lying areas insist on living in harm's way, they ought to accept responsibility for what happens to them and their property."

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Pic of neworleans http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/126535main_neworleans_flood_0831.jpg



What i find to be crazy is the fact that many liberals are blaming the hurricane on Bush.
Link -> http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46059
And that others are calling Bush a racist.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/D8CCAOI81.html


Of course, i do think that things can and should've been done differently:
For example
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/02/D8CC9VLGE.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46113
However, it is not bush's job to be the fema director.

But, in the wake of such disasters we seldom care to see the good that happens:
http://www.local6.com/news/4929516/detail.html
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/nation/12530764.htm
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=FT&Date=20050902&ID=5083504



Fibonacci

 

[TRCSF]

Whether or not to rebuild New Orleans is a complicated issue. That's really something to worry about in the long term. Personally, I don't think it should be rebuild below sea level. But I don't see why it can't be rebuilt on fill. A good portion of Seattle is actually build on fill.

 

[edward]

For a good look at what FEMA is supposed to do click on the link.
Inside the link at the top is an MS power point presentation about FEMA.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:...May01.ppt+Fema+transportation+contracts&hl=en

FEMA has contracts with numerous companies to preposition water, ice, and emergency power production units. It appears that they must have prepositioned the water in locations that were not accessible after the hurricane. There is no other reason to explain the lack of water at the Superdome.

FEMA is now under homeland security and they seem to be tripping over each other.

 

[Art]

My apologies...I should have said "appealed" in my first post as it would be a little misleading to suggest that the president can force the state to relinqiush it's rights. So again I'll ask you, WHY would the President of the United States have to give a personal APPEAL to the Governor to start a mandatory evacuation?!

Now now Kat please don't try to obfuscate, here is what you actually said

when Bush first called and insisted the governor call a state of emergency ahead of the storm.

So what you should have said is that you were wrong as the governer had already declared a state of emergency two days prior to your Bush ref. But then that would mean you admitting you were in error.

Even so, Friday, three days before hurricane Katrina pounded the Gulf Coast, Gov. Kathleen Blanco declared a state of emergency,

http://w115.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46073

 

[Kerrie]

Whether or not to rebuild New Orleans is a complicated issue. That's really something to worry about in the long term. Personally, I don't think it should be rebuild below sea level. But I don't see why it can't be rebuilt on fill. A good portion of Seattle is actually build on fill.

They should build New Orleans like they did Venice...tons of tourism that way.

 

[Skyhunter]

Oh, guess who got the big contract.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685

Now we know why Americans are dying of dehydration.

There's no-bid contracts to sign.

I was wondering where Dick Cheney was.

From the way this has been handled, no wonder there is an insurgency in Iraq!

 

[kat]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That's priceless. What the hell do you think they have been trying to do since the hurricane warning was announced? The ones left behind are mainly the poor who did not own any transport to leave in. Walking the equivalent of the breath of England isn't a viable option.

http://www.nola.com/search/index.ssf?/base/library-88/1125213019249320.xml?nola

"By mid-afternoon, officials in Plaquemines, St. Bernard, St. Charles, Lafourche, Terrebonne and Jefferson parishes had called for voluntary or mandatory evacuations.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin followed at 5 p.m., issuing a voluntary evacuation.

Nagin said late Saturday that he's having his legal staff look into whether he can order a mandatory evacuation of the city, a step he's been hesitant to do because of potential liability on the part of the city for closing hotels and other businesses........Contraflow in effect

State Police activated the state's redesigned contraflow plan Saturday at 4 p.m., allowing traffic to use both sides of Interstates 55, 59 and 10 to evacuate New Orleans to the north, east and west after early afternoon traffic left westbound lanes of I-10 backed up bumper-to-bumper for miles in the 93-degree heat. Within hours, however, the contraflow system seemed to have alleviated much of the logjam.

furthermore:http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

"The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles.
School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles
provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation
for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in
evacuating."

Note the photo I posted and posted in the post above showing the buses still parked and not used for evacuations.


http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/newsrelated/hurripamends.htm

A partial summary of action plans follows...

State resources are adequate to operate shelters for the first 3-5 days. The group planned how federal and other resources will replenish supplies at shelters.

 

[McGyver]

Events in Clusters: Decontaminating Flood Waters

The New Orleans hurricane Katrina should come as no surprise. Starting with the 2004 hurricane, a new cluster trend appeared on the radar. Between '04 and '05, I recall three or four Cat 4 to Cat 5 hurricanes that headed up the gulf towards the Florida panhandle, Louisiana, and Missippi coasts. It appeared to establish a cluster affect, as well as a cluster increase in total Carribean storms. It was only a matter of time and chance that a major city like NO would take a hit. NO experts also knew the levies could not withstand beyond a CAT 3. As such, NO had requested Army Core Engineers to reinforce the levies.

Now that the levies have breached and flooded, I can't understand why no news sources has suggested adding a "bleach decontaminent" to the flooded city water. It would help to reduce spread of disease. Also, I would HOPE that a decontaminant is added to that water before pumping it out to the river and/or sea. That is a lot of bacteria to pump out untreated.

 

[Skyhunter]

They should build New Orleans like they did Venice...tons of tourism that way.

I was just thinking of something similar. Would be terribly expensive to build foundations on swampland that would withstand more hurricanes. And I don't believe we have seen the last of them.

I am not a climatologist but after listening to a few I have learned two things about hurricanes.

1. The frequency of hurricanes runs in cycles and we are in an increased cycle.

2. Hurricanes gain strength in warm water. The warmer the water the greater potential for a strong hurricane.

 

[1123581321]

I was wondering where Dick Cheney was.

From the way this has been handled, no wonder there is an insurgency in Iraq!

let's wait and give them a chance before we pounce on them just because they're halliburton.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'

CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:

NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09) [continued]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/