What are 'rods' and 'clocks in relativity?

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    Relativity
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of 'rods' and 'clocks' in the context of relativity, exploring their definitions, roles in establishing a coordinate system, and implications for understanding space and time. Participants seek clarification on how these concepts relate to the principles of relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that 'rods' and 'clocks' are used to establish a coordinate system in relativity.
  • One participant defines a rod as a measure of length and a clock as a measure of time, referencing Einstein's work.
  • Another participant argues that relativity emphasizes the relativity of time, length, and mass, suggesting that using rods and clocks is more appropriate than fixed units like meters or seconds.
  • A different viewpoint highlights that clocks in different reference frames may not agree on time measurements, yet can still define a second consistently within their own frames.
  • One participant outlines two principles of relativity, noting that a moving clock runs slower and a moving rod is shorter than their stationary counterparts, linking these observations to the concepts of time dilation and length contraction.
  • Another participant describes rods as rulers and clocks as instruments for measuring elapsed time, providing a link to external resources for further understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations of the concepts of rods and clocks, with some agreement on their roles in relativity, but significant disagreement on the implications and definitions, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of time and length, as well as the assumptions underlying the principles of relativity. The relationship between moving and stationary reference frames is also not fully resolved.

Sul
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Hey I need some help on this. What are 'rods' and 'clocks'. Someone told me it's a coordinate system. I don't understand it. Any help?
 
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Hi Sul,
probably you refer to a statement like "The length of a rod and the speed of a clock are relative" or the like. Am I on the right track?
 
As used by Albert Einstein in referance to Relativity, A rod is something that measures length, a clock is something that measures time.
 
You use rods and clocks to establish a coordinate system.
 
Hi Sul(that's what I'm called as well)...

Relativity uses the concepts of rods and clocks instead of meter or seconds because every person, according to reltivity, has his own time...time, length and mass are relative...thats why its more appropriate to use rods and clocks...
 
Stranger, I not sure you have it right there.
For example in one reference frame a second might be defined as so many cycles of a certain atom clock, in another reference frame it could be defined as the same number of cycles of the same design of atomic clock. The clocks moving relative to each other would just not agree with each other, but they could each still define a second as the same thing.
 
meter or seconds

Thanks Dave...I know that I shouldn't have written this down...
 


Originally posted by Sul
Hey I need some help on this. What are 'rods' and 'clocks'. Someone told me it's a coordinate system. I don't understand it. Any help?

In relativity there are two principles

(1) The laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames of referance

(2) The speed of light is indendent of the source in an inertial frame of referance

When put together it can be shown that
(1) a moving clock runs slower than an identical clock which is at rest
(2) a moving rod is shorter than an identical rod which is at rest

The slowing of clocks implies that the slowing of the clock has to do with the slowing of time itself. And same with the shortening of the rod - space itself has contracted.

Hence special relativity is the theory of space and time i.e. Space-Time!

Then there's General Relativity which gets more complicated. It can be shown that in the mass can curve spacetime!

Pete
 


Originally posted by Sul
What are 'rods' and 'clocks'. Someone told me it's a coordinate system.
A “rod” is just a ruler. A “clock” is an instrument that measures elapsed time. See http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity to understand how rods and clocks are used to comprehend spacetime.
 

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