Newtonian limit of Schwarzschild metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Newtonian limit of the Schwarzschild metric, specifically focusing on the tt-component of the Einstein equation for a static metric. Participants explore the mathematical steps required to show how this metric reduces to Newton's equation, engaging in technical reasoning and calculations related to the Einstein Field Equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks what needs to be proven to show that the tt-component of the Einstein equation reduces to Newton's equation.
  • Another suggests computing the Einstein tensor for the given metric and taking its 0-0 component to demonstrate the reduction to Newton's equation.
  • It is proposed that this process leads to Poisson's equation for the gravitostatic potential, with a specific form given as ##\nabla^2 \phi (\mathbb{r}) = -\rho##.
  • One participant provides a form for ##G_{tt}## and expresses confusion about obtaining a first derivative of ##\phi## instead of a second derivative.
  • Another participant confirms the form of ##G_{tt}## and reiterates the importance of considering both the Ricci tensor and Ricci scalar when calculating the Einstein tensor.
  • There is a discussion about the significance of the trace term in the Einstein Field Equations and how it relates to the components being analyzed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Ricci tensor and Ricci scalar's second derivatives, with some emphasizing the importance of the overall sum in the Einstein Field Equations while others suggest that the second derivatives may be relevant. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the best approach to proceed with the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the calculations involved, including the need to compute both components of the Einstein tensor and the potential for second derivatives to appear in those calculations. There is also mention of external resources, such as Carroll's lecture notes, which may provide additional insights.

dwellexity
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If I am asked to show that the tt-component of the Einstein equation for the static metric
##ds^2 = (1-2\phi(r)) dt^2 - (1+2\phi(r)) dr^2 - r^2(d\theta^2 + sin^2(\theta) d\phi^2)##, where ##|\phi(r)| \ll1## reduces to the Newton's equation, what exactly am I supposed to prove?
 
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Compute the Einstein tensor for this metric and plug it into the Einstein Field Equation; take its 0-0 component; and show that the resulting equation reduces to Newton's equation.
 
I think it leads to Poisson's equation for the gravitostatic potential. ## \nabla^2 \phi (\mathbb{r}) = -\rho ##
 
PeterDonis said:
Compute the Einstein tensor for this metric and plug it into the Einstein Field Equation; take its 0-0 component; and show that the resulting equation reduces to Newton's equation.
I have got ##G_{tt} = - \frac{2(-1+2\phi)(\phi + 2 \phi^2 +r \phi')}{(r+2r\phi)^2}##
How do I proceed from here? I am getting a first derivative of ##\phi## instead of second derivative.
 
dwellexity said:
I have got ##G_{tt} = - \frac{2(-1+2\phi)(\phi + 2 \phi^2 +r \phi')}{(r+2r\phi)^2}##

Yes, this looks ok.

dwellexity said:
I am getting a first derivative of ##\phi## instead of second derivative.

Yes, but remember that the Einstein tensor has two pieces: ##G_{\mu \nu} = R_{\mu \nu} - \frac{1}{2} g_{\mu \nu} R##, where ##R_{\mu \nu}## is the Ricci tensor, and ##R## is the Ricci scalar. So the EFE is really ##R_{\mu \nu} - \frac{1}{2} g_{\mu \nu} R = 8 \pi T_{\mu \nu}##. You might try calculating the two pieces separately to see if there are second derivatives there.

Also, you might take a look at Carroll's online lecture notes on GR, chapter 4, which has a discussion of this calculation.
 
PeterDonis said:
Yes, but remember that the Einstein tensor has two pieces: ##G_{\mu \nu} = R_{\mu \nu} - \frac{1}{2} g_{\mu \nu} R##, where ##R_{\mu \nu}## is the Ricci tensor, and ##R## is the Ricci scalar. So the EFE is really ##R_{\mu \nu} - \frac{1}{2} g_{\mu \nu} R = 8 \pi T_{\mu \nu}##. You might try calculating the two pieces separately to see if there are second derivatives there.

I don't understand how this would affect anything. Even if Ricci tensor and Ricci Scalar have second derivatives, what ultimately matters is this particular sum.
 
dwellexity said:
Even if Ricci tensor and Ricci Scalar have second derivatives, what ultimately matters is this particular sum.

Not necessarily. Take a look at Carroll's notes. The short version: there is an alternate way of writing the EFE, which moves the trace term from the LHS to the RHS:

$$
R_{\mu \nu} = 8 \pi \left( T_{\mu \nu} - \frac{1}{2} g_{\mu \nu} T \right)
$$

For the case under discussion only the 0-0 component of this equation is significant, and only ##T_{00}## is significant in the trace ##T##.
 

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