Newton's 3rd law, tension, friction

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around Newton's third law, tension, and friction in a problem involving two boxes stacked on top of each other. Participants are analyzing the forces acting on the boxes and the conditions under which they will slide off due to applied tension.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between tension and static friction, questioning how the forces interact to determine whether the boxes will slide off. There is a focus on calculating the maximum acceleration before sliding occurs and the implications of static friction on this scenario.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the conditions necessary for the boxes to slide, noting that both boxes can slide at the same time under certain conditions. There is ongoing exploration of the reasoning behind the sliding behavior and the role of static friction.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of homework rules and are attempting to clarify their understanding of the problem setup and the forces involved. There is a mention of differing interpretations regarding the sliding behavior of the boxes.

teammatt3
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Homework Statement


hw.gif


Homework Equations


F=m*a
Fs <= N*us
Fk = N * uk

The Attempt at a Solution


b) T-fs = 120
T-.2 * 9.8 * (15 + 20 + 25) = 120 => T = 237.6 Newtons

c) (Fs)2 on 1 = (Fs)1 on 2 = 15 * 9.8* .6 = 88.2 Newtons

d) (15 + 20) * 9.8 * .6 = 205.8 Newtons

e) This is where I'm falling apart. Since we are applying a larger tension force than the static friction of both top boxes, then the boxes must slide off. Right?

f) My professor said they slide off at the same time, but I'm not sure how to show it, or why. I thought the top one would fly off first, since the static friction force is smallest.

Any help is appreciated!
 
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teammatt3 said:
e) This is where I'm falling apart. Since we are applying a larger tension force than the static friction of both top boxes, then the boxes must slide off. Right?
Ask yourself: In order to accelerate m1 (or m1 & m2) what force is required? Is static friction sufficient to provide that force?
f) My professor said they slide off at the same time, but I'm not sure how to show it, or why. I thought the top one would fly off first, since the static friction force is smallest.
Figure out the maximum acceleration that each box can have without sliding. (Consider the available static friction.)
 
Thank you! That helped.

The accelerations where the boxes start to slide are:

m1: 88.2 = 15 * a => a = 5.88
m2: 205.8 = (15+20) * a => a = 5.88

So they both slide at the same time. And in part e, since the acceleration is less than 5.88, they don't slide off.
 
Good!
 

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