Non Quantized Light: Could It Produce Energy Below Photon?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of an electronic circuit producing electromagnetic waves with energy below that of a photon. Participants explore the implications of such an experiment, touching on quantum mechanics, the behavior of electromagnetic waves, and the nature of photon emission.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether an electronic circuit could produce electromagnetic waves with energy below that of a photon, acknowledging the technical challenges involved.
  • Another participant argues that at low intensities, detectors would count individual photons, suggesting that producing energy below photon energy is not feasible.
  • It is noted that as wavelength increases, photon energy decreases, leading to difficulties in detecting individual photons at longer wavelengths.
  • A participant emphasizes the necessity of using quantum mechanics to describe the electronic circuit, indicating that classical treatment is insufficient.
  • Discussion includes the energy levels of an LC circuit and the implications of photon emission during transitions between these levels.
  • Questions are raised about potential deviations from the quantum harmonic oscillator model and whether circuits operating at radio wave frequencies can experimentally demonstrate photon division.
  • Another participant reiterates that all circuits are described by quantum mechanics, regardless of whether they are harmonic oscillators, and discusses the evolution of the radiation field under certain initial conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of producing energy below photon energy and the applicability of quantum mechanics to electronic circuits. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on quantum mechanical descriptions, the challenges of empirical observation at longer wavelengths, and the assumptions regarding circuit behavior and photon emission.

Relena
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An electronic circuit that produces electromagnetic waves in the visible light range, would such an experiment be able to produce electromagnetic waves with energy below the photon's energy ?

I know it is technically hard to conduct such an experiment, but ... what would happen then?
 
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No that would not be possible. At a low enough intensity, a detector would be counting individual photons.

This does bring up an interesting point. As you move toward longer wavelength, the energy of each photon goes down.

E=hf E=hc/wavelength

So at some long wavelength (out of the visual), it becomes technically hard to empirically see individual photons. We think they're still there though.
 
If you want to describe what would happen, you have to describe your electronic circuit using quantum mechanics. So, you can't treat the currents and voltages in your circuit classically, they become operators that don't commute.

In case of an LC circuit with angular resonance frequency omega, what you find is that this circuit has energy levels of:

E_n = (n+1/2)hbar omega

If this circuit is coupled to the electromagnetic field, then you see that the emission of a photon of angular frequency is accompanied by a transition of the circuit to a lower energy level.
 
You say we must use the quantum harmonic scillator...
so, aren't there any deviations from that?
Are those circuits of radio waves unable to create divisions of photons, experimentally ?
An answer to that question would tell us either we are forced to quantize all oscillators or not.
 
Relena said:
You say we must use the quantum harmonic scillator...
so, aren't there any deviations from that?
Are those circuits of radio waves unable to create divisions of photons, experimentally ?
An answer to that question would tell us either we are forced to quantize all oscillators or not.

Everything, including your circuit is described by quantum mechanics. If it is not a harmonic oscilator, it is still described by some Hamiltonian. It is also coupled to the electromagnetic radiation field. Then if you sart with some initial conditions, in which the radiation field in the ground state (no photns present), and you apply the time evolution operator to compute the future state, you'll see that the radiation field is no longer in the ground state.
 

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