Normal and Friction Force of Leaning Ladder against a Corner

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the analysis of forces acting on a ladder leaning against a corner, specifically focusing on the normal and friction forces at the contact point. Participants explore the setup of these forces, calculations involving the ladder's dimensions and mass, and the coefficient of static friction required for stability.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to correctly set up the normal and friction forces at the corner where the ladder touches.
  • Another participant requests full calculations to identify errors in the initial approach.
  • A participant mentions the need to find the smallest coefficient of static friction (mu_s) given specific parameters of the ladder.
  • There is a suggestion that the normal force should be oriented normal to the ladder itself.
  • A participant identifies a calculation error regarding the distance of the ladder's center of gravity along the x-axis.
  • There is uncertainty about the correct angle for the normal force at the bottom of the ladder, with different angles being tested by participants.
  • One participant reports successfully arriving at the correct answer using a specific angle and a computer program to solve the equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct setup of forces and angles, and there is no consensus on the correct approach or final answer. Multiple competing views remain regarding the calculations and assumptions involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential errors in calculations, assumptions about angles, and dependencies on the specific setup of the problem. Some participants rely on computational tools to assist in solving the equations.

lizzyb
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How do we set up the normal and friction force at the place where the ladder (the red line) touches the corner?

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6655/prob08021sketch01.gif

Worked Done So Far

I used a normal force the headed off to the top left at 45 degrees and a perpendicular friction force but came up with the wrong answer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Hi lizzyb! :wink:

Show us your full calculations, and then we can see what went wrong, and we'll know how to help. :smile:
 
We're to find the smallest mu_s given that the ladder is 6.5 m, m = 10 kg, and mu_s is at each surface.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4034/0821diagram1.png

Work completed thus Far

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5127/08210001.th.jpg http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/3205/08210002.th.jpg http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/9206/08210003.th.jpg http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4198/08210004.th.jpg http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6672/08210005j.th.jpg http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/6554/08210006.th.jpg

In an effort to solve it, I went on and on and finally came up with an incorrect answer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ah! :rolleyes:

the normal force means normal to the ladder! :wink:

Try again! :smile:
 
oops there is a glaring error in the calculation of the distance between the ladder's center of gravity along the x-axis - it should be 1.25.
 
should the normal force at the bottom be slanted 15 degrees or should it, too, be at 67.38 degrees? I tried it with the bottom being 15 degrees and came slightly off but I had to use a computer program to come up with the answer - there's a lot of computations.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5466/082120001.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I came up with the right answer using 15 degrees on the bottom (there was an error in one of my equations). I used maxima to solve the simultaneous equations. Thanks for you help.
 

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