Normal modes of a rectangular elastic membrane

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the normal modes of a rectangular elastic membrane, specifically focusing on the application of the two-dimensional wave equation and the method of separation of variables. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the wave function and the implications of boundary conditions on the solution.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the form of the wave function and the separation of variables method. There is an exploration of the expressions for coefficients G and H, and questions arise regarding the correct representation of the wave function in terms of amplitude and phase angle.

Discussion Status

The conversation has progressed through various attempts to derive expressions for amplitude and phase angle from the coefficients G and H. Some participants have provided guidance on using trigonometric identities to facilitate this derivation. There is an acknowledgment of differing conventions regarding phase angles in wave equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the algebra involved in manipulating trigonometric identities and the potential for confusion regarding the conventions used in their course. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to clarify these mathematical relationships without reaching a definitive conclusion.

ContagiousKnowledge
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Homework Statement
Consider a thin elastic sheet that spreads from x = 0 to x = x' and y = 0 to y = y' where the sheet's transverse displacement ψ is 0 x=0, y=0, x=x', and y=y'. at Demonstrate that the amplitudes and phase angles in the normal mode expansion are given by $$ A_{i,j} = \sqrt {G^{2}{}_{i,j} + H^{2}{}_{i,j}} $$
and
$$ tan^{-1}(\frac {H_{i,j}} {G_{i,j}}) $$
Confirm that
$$ G_{i,j} = \frac {4} {x'y'} \int_{0}^{y'} \int_{0}^{x'} \psi(x, y, 0) sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y) dx dy $$
$$ H_{i,j} = \frac {4} {x'y' \omega_{i,j}} \int_{0}^{y'} \int_{0}^{x'} \frac {\partial \psi(x, y, 0)} {\partial t} sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y) dx dy $$
Relevant Equations
$$ \frac {\partial^2 \psi} {\partial t^2} = v^2( \frac {\partial^2 \psi} {\partial x^2} + \frac {\partial^2 \psi} {\partial y^2} ) $$
Let's try inputting a solution of the following form into the two-dimensional wave equation: $$ \psi(x, y, t) = X(x)Y(y)T(t) $$
Solving using the method of separation of variables yields
$$ \frac {v^2} {X(x)} \frac {\partial^2 X(x)} {\partial x^2} + \frac {v^2} {Y(y)} \frac {\partial^2 Y(y)} {\partial y^2} =\frac {1} {T(t)} \frac {\partial^2 T(t)} {\partial t^2} =-\omega^2$$

$$ T(t) = A_{i,j}cos(\omega_{i,j} t) + B_{i,j}sin(\omega_{i,j} t)$$
$$ X(x) =Ccos(k_{x} t) + D_{i,j}sin(k_{x} t) $$
$$ Y(y) =Ecos(k_{y} t) + Fsin(k_{y} t) $$
where
$$ \frac {1} {X(x)} \frac {\partial^2 X(x)} {\partial x^2} = -k_{x}^2 $$
$$ \frac {1} {Y(y)} \frac {\partial^2 Y(y)} {\partial y^2} = -k_{y}^2 $$
The boundary conditions ψ(0, y, t) = ψ(x, 0, t) = 0 tells us that C=E=0.
the conditions ψ(x', y, t) = ψ(x, y', t) = 0 tell us that
$$ k_{x} = \frac {\pi i} {x'}, $$
$$ k_{y} = \frac {\pi j} {y'} $$
$$ \omega = \pi v \sqrt {\frac{i^{2}}{x'^{2}}+\frac{j^{2}}{y'^{2}}} $$
From this, we can ascertain the particular solution for given i and j
$$ \psi(x, y, t) = [G_{i,j}cos(\omega_{i,j} t) + H_{i,j}sin(\omega_{i,j} t)]sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y)$$
$$ G_{i,j}=A_{i,j}D_{i}F_{j}, H_{i,j}=B_{i,j}D_{i}F_{j} $$
Since the wave equation is linear, the general solution is a superposition of all normal modes.
$$ \psi(x, y, t) = \Sigma_{i=0,\infty} \Sigma_{j=0,\infty}[G_{i,j}cos(\omega_{i,j} t) + H_{i,j}sin(\omega_{i,j} t)]sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y) $$

$$ \psi(x, y, 0) = \Sigma_{i=0,\infty} \Sigma_{j=0,\infty}G_{i,j}sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y) $$
$$ G_{i,j} = \frac {4} {x'y'} \int_{0}^{y'} \int_{0}^{x'} \psi(x, y, 0) sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y) dx dy $$

$$ \frac {\partial \psi(x, y, 0)} {\partial t} = \Sigma_{i=0,\infty} \Sigma_{j=0,\infty} \omega_{i,j} H_{i,j}sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y) $$
$$ H_{i,j} = \frac {4} {x'y' \omega_{i,j}} \int_{0}^{y'} \int_{0}^{x'} \frac {\partial \psi(x, y, 0)} {\partial t} sin(\frac {\pi i} {x'}x)sin(\frac {\pi j} {y'}y) dx dy $$
I've omitted some math because entering it with latex was taking a long time, but I have arrived at the correct expressions for G and H. I don't know how to proceed from here.
 
Last edited:
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ContagiousKnowledge said:
$$ T(t) = A_{i,j}cos(\omega_{i,j} t) + B_{i,j}cos(\omega_{i,j} t)$$
Did you mean to use a cosine function in both terms?

I have arrived at the correct expressions for G and H. I don't know how to proceed from here.
An expression of the form ##G\cos \omega t + H\sin \omega t## may be expressed in terms of an amplitude ##A## and a phase angle ##\phi## as ##A \cos (\omega t + \phi)## or ##A \cos (\omega t - \phi)##. The choice of + or - in front of ##\phi## is a matter of convention. ( I don't know which convention you use in your course.) Can you derive expressions for ##A## and ##\phi## in terms of ##G## and ##H##?
 
No, I did not intend to use cosine for both terms.

I am accustomed to using -ϕ to indicate a wave moving in the positive direction and +ϕ for a wave moving in the negative direction.

As for deriving expressions for the amplitude and phase angle for the normal modes in terms of G and H, could you elaborate a little more on what you are asking of me? I know that it is possible to derive such expressions because it is stated in the problem; I assume your question was rhetorical. My ultimate goal is to figure out how one would derive these expressions.
 
ContagiousKnowledge said:
No, I did not intend to use cosine for both terms.
OK

As for deriving expressions for the amplitude and phase angle for the normal modes in terms of G and H, could you elaborate a little more on what you are asking of me? I know that it is possible to derive such expressions because it is stated in the problem; I assume your question was rhetorical. My ultimate goal is to figure out how one would derive these expressions.
Use the trig identity ##\cos(\alpha + \beta) = \cos(\alpha)\cos(\beta)-\sin (\alpha) \sin(\beta)## to help you write ##G\cos(\omega t) + H\sin(\omega t)## in the form ##A\cos(\omega t + \phi)##.
 
I've been playing with this algebra for a while and I'm afraid I don't see how to rewrite the expression in that form.
$$ Gcos( \omega t - \phi) + Hsin( \omega t - \phi) = G[cos( \omega t)cos( \phi ) + sin( \omega t)sin( \phi )] + H[sin( \omega t)cos( \phi ) - cos( \omega t )sin( \phi )] $$
Which can be rewritten as
$$ [Gcos( \phi ) - Hsin( \phi )]cos( \omega t) + [Gsin( \phi ) + Hcos( \phi)]sin( \omega t) $$
although this doesn't seem particularly useful. I have tried rearranging the expression in numerous ways. Presumably, we will have to square both sides of the equation eventually since H and G are both squared in the given expression for amplitude. I tried squaring the expression in its current form, but the result is fairly convoluted and doesn't appear to simplify to anything useful.
I apologize if I'm missing something simple.
 
Apply the trig identity to ##A\cos(\omega t + \phi)## and compare with ##G\cos \omega t + H\sin \omega t##.
 
@TSny Again, I've been rearranging trig functions for a long time, but it hasn't been very productive.
$$ Acos(\omega t + \phi) = A[cos(\omega t)cos(\phi) - sin(\omega t)sin(\phi)] = Gcos(\omega t) + Hsin(\omega t) $$
$$ A = \frac{Gcos(\omega t) + Hsin(\omega t)}{cos(\omega t)cos(\phi) - sin(\omega t)sin(\phi)} $$
We could try setting ϕ to different values to generate more expressions
$$ \phi = 0 $$ $$ A = G + Htan(\omega t) $$
$$ \phi = \frac{\pi}{2} $$ $$ -A = Gtan(\omega t) + H $$
Although, we could have derived this without using the cos(a + b) identity, and this doesn't seem to bring me closer to the answer regardless.
Among other attempts, I've also tried substituting the given expression for A directly hoping to find something that clearly resembles Gcos(ωt)+Hsin(ωt), but to no avail.
$$ Acos(\omega t + \phi) = \sqrt{G^{2} + H^{2}}[cos(\omega t)cos(\phi) - sin(\omega t)sin(\phi)] = \sqrt{(G^{2} + H^{2})(cos^{2}(\omega t)cos^{2}(\phi) - 2cos(\omega t)cos(\phi)sin(\omega t)sin(\phi) + sin^{2}(\omega t)sin^{2}(\phi))}$$
 
Last edited:
ContagiousKnowledge said:
@TSny Again, I've been rearranging trig functions for a long time, but it hasn't been very productive.
$$ Acos(\omega t + \phi) = A[cos(\omega t)cos(\phi) - sin(\omega t)sin(\phi)] = Gcos(\omega t) + Hsin(\omega t) $$
Look at the second equality. What is the coefficient of ##\cos \omega t## on each side of this equality? What is the coefficient of ##\sin \omega t## on each side of this equality?
 
@TSny
$$ Acos(\phi)cos(\omega t) = Gcos(\omega t) $$ $$ G = Acos(\phi) $$
$$ -Asin(\omega t)sin(\phi) = H sin(\omega t) $$ $$ H = -Asin(\phi) $$
$$ \sqrt{G^{2} + H^{2}} = \sqrt{A^{2}cos^{2}(\phi) + A^{2}sin^{2}(\phi)} = A $$
Okay, I should have seen that; thank you for your help. Now, as for ϕ
$$ \frac{H}{G} = \frac{-sin(\phi)}{cos(\phi)}$$
I think ϕ should have been negative, which is the default since a negative ϕ conventionally indicates a wave moving in the positive direction. This would get red of the negative sign in the final expression, and the resultant expression would prove that
$$ arctan(\frac{H}{G}) = \phi $$
This question was much simpler than I thought. Thank you for your help.
 
  • #10
OK. Good.

I've never heard of choosing the sign of ##\phi## based on the direction of travel of a wave. But, go with the convention for your course. In this problem, you are dealing with standing waves (normal modes) rather than traveling waves. ##\phi## is just a phase angle associated with the time dependence of the standing wave.
 

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