Normal Modes of a Triangle Shaped Molecule

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a molecule composed of three identical atoms positioned at the vertices of a right triangle, specifically a 45-degree triangle. The focus is on determining the six normal modes of the molecule and understanding their representations, while considering the interactions modeled by spring potentials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the derivation of specific equations from a referenced document, particularly how certain approximations lead to the formulation of distances between atoms. Other participants inquire about specific lines in the equations and suggest methods to simplify the expressions for clarity.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants actively seeking clarification on the mathematical steps involved in the problem. Some guidance has been offered regarding approximations and algebraic manipulation, but there is no explicit consensus on the interpretation of the equations at this stage.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of the problem setup and the assumptions necessary for deriving the equations. There is an emphasis on ensuring that the molecule's motion is planar and that certain coordinates are set appropriately to avoid complications.

NewNuNeutrino
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Homework Statement


A molecule consists of three identical atoms located at the vertices of a 45 degree right triangle.
Each pair of atoms interacts by an effective spring potential, with all spring constants equal
to k. Consider only planar motion of this molecule. What are 6 normal modes and what do they represent?

The real stickler of this problem is the set up.

Homework Equations



See section 10.9.1 in this:
http://www-physics.ucsd.edu/students/courses/fall2010/physics110a/LECTURES/CH10.pdf

The Attempt at a Solution


Basically I started off and did the same thing until they took some approximations starting with 10.109.

I don't understand how they got 10.110 in the linked file. I think I understand how they got 10.109 and 10.111, since y2,y1 and x3,x1 are zero if you set your coordinates correctly and don't allow the molecule to spin too much.

The rest of problem is a doable and understandable, I'm just getting stuck on this one part.

Thank you!
 
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Hello, NewNuNeutrino.

Which line of equation 10.110 are you asking about?
 
TSny said:
Hello, NewNuNeutrino.

Which line of equation 10.110 are you asking about?

I know where he gets d_{12}=\sqrt{(-a+x_{3}-x_{2})^{2}+(a+y_{3}-y_{2})^{2}}
but I don't know what approximation he uses to get to
d_{12}=\sqrt{2}a-\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(x_{3}-x_{2})+\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}(y_{3}-y_{2})

It seems like it should be simple, but I can't figure it out.

Thank you!
 
Try to get the expression into a form that you can use ##\sqrt{1+\epsilon} \approx 1+\epsilon/2##

You might let ##Δx = x_2-x_3## and ##Δy = y_3-y_2## (note the order of subscripts). Then you can write the initial expression as $$d_{23}=\sqrt{(a+Δx)^2+(a+Δy)^2}$$
Also note that to first order accuracy, ##(a+Δx)^2 \approx a^2+2aΔx##, etc.
 

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